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  1. #21
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    It all came down to one random day in life, when my brother took me to get something to eat. As I was enjoying my tasty hamburger and fries, I decided to wash it down with a soft drink. As I was sipping from the straw, my brother said it looked "gay". Worse yet, that straws in general were "gay". I was crushed! I've been scarred for life. Each step I take a tiring ordeal, crossing vast psychological distances. Sooner or later, I'm going to get tired of putting one foot in front of the other. I live with too much shame.

    So now you understand.

  2. #22
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Because you are going through a period where all of the shame is buried underneath what you feel.
    You flip-flop often. I don't really get you. Then again, I haven't tried.
    ISTP 6w5 sx/sp
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  3. #23
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I can't explain all people, but I feel shame, embarrassment, disappointment with self, etc, because I have too high ideals. We could call it being an enneagram 4, but I'd also explain this is way:

    - Inability to live up to too-high standards &/or a need to be perfect. In my case, my internal, ideal standards can be too high. A person may feel ashamed about something because it's "not good enough", falling short of their ideal, even if it is "good enough" to other people. There's too much focus on how something falls short, not on where it succeeds.

    - Invalidation or lack of understanding from others. Let's say you do something you deem good/important & it's dismissed because it's not in-line with prevailing views; or you express a well thought-out viewpoint & it's dismissed by others without much consideration because it is not "typical" & familiar to them. Let's say they assert something is important that you don't see as important, and so living up to it is both a chore & dissatisfying, and it prevents you from doing what does feel important to you. All of this will wear on your self-worth, create self-doubt, weaken your ability to see yourself through kinder eyes, etc.

    - Vulnerability. Feeling too open, too known, too exposed is embarrassing for some because it leaves them open to judgment. People who are shy & easily embarrassed fall into this category. Even positive attention can be embarrassing because it creates a standard they have to meet again in the future, or the attention may leave them open to further scrutiny that may result in identification of a flaw.

    - Hyper self-awareness. A person is too focused on themselves & how they come across, so they over-scrutinize themselves & always come up short.

    - Comparison with others, but only when they surpass you. It's a tendency to only compare yourself with people who have/are what you'd like to be, which inevitably makes you feel inferior.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #24

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    I think a lot of it has to do with a person's environment when they are young. A lot of shame can come from role conflict -- only valued for certain actions that fit into the role. (being a "good" son,parent, wife or whatever) I can easily see how someone would be ashamed of themselves when people around them don't accept certain qualities.

    Mainly, I think it comes from wanting to live up to some ideal/role/ or just to please someone but not really being able to for some reason. But, then the question would be why is it so important to get that approval?

  5. #25
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    Personally I feel that some of it has to do with the way that society as a whole depicts what is success and what is failure.
    This.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #26
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I don't get it, why do people feel ashamed of themselves, hate themselves or feel like they somehow need to do something to validate their existence? what is the psychological root of shame and feelings of worthlessness? they don't make any sense to me.
    They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
    They may not mean to, but they do.
    They fill you with the faults they had
    And add some extra, just for you.

    But they were fucked up in their turn
    By fools in old-style hats and coats,
    Who half the time were soppy-stern
    And half at one another's throats.

    Man hands on misery to man.
    It deepens like a coastal shelf.
    Get out as early as you can,
    And don't have any kids yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I don't get it, why do people feel ashamed of themselves, hate themselves or feel like they somehow need to do something to validate their existence? what is the psychological root of shame and feelings of worthlessness? they don't make any sense to me.
    By their actions you will know them.

    There are some people who are worthless, they act in a way which makes that judgement of them valid. Once you've fufilled or discharged your obligation towards them its a done deal.

  8. #28
    Intergalactic Badass mujigay's Avatar
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    Mixed messages. Your parents/family/close friends treat you like shit but the outside world pumps you up or vice versa, and you become confused. You feel like a fraud of some sort because you can't be worthless and the center of the universe all at the same time, right? But you'll never know which one is right because no one is truly qualified to give you the "right" answer other than yourself, and yet you've been trained from day one to never trust your own judgement, it always has to be backed up by an outside source. Or anyhow, that's the observation I've made.
    1w9 sx/sp
    A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants.

    All that is gold does not glitter
    Not all those who wander are lost

  9. #29
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    This is probably something that a lot of people have said already in this thread, but here's why I experience shame (from an Enneagram 1 perspective). It's a pretty linear process:

    1) I know what's correct. I've been taught what's correct and incorrect from a young age, and what hasn't been explained to me, I've judged for myself, in terms of correctness or incorrectness. Either way, everything has its category (note: these categories are subject to change at any moment; they are not concrete).
    2) I know how and when I fail to be correct, right, or admirable.
    3) I care enough about being correct, that I feel like I've failed, when I am incorrect. I beat myself up about it, because someone needs to discipline me for being bad.

    Other people have mentioned the parent's role in shame -- and in my case (as well as other Enneagram 1s), my parents disciplined me very unevenly. They'd discipline me once or twice, and then be chill the rest of the time, trusting me to do the right thing because they recognized that I was a "good kid" and could be trusted to do the right thing. But the thing is, the uneven and unpredictable discipline meant that I never knew when to expect it -- and because it was infrequent, I never got used to it, so I remained very sensitive to criticism, both from myself and from other people.

    Man, the Enneagram is great for telling you exactly how and why you're f*cked up

    Oh, and p.s.: This thread is making me wonder how a person could be raised without shame. What parenting techniques would lead to that -- and what would the consequences be?

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by mujigay View Post
    Mixed messages. Your parents/family/close friends treat you like shit but the outside world pumps you up or vice versa, and you become confused. You feel like a fraud of some sort because you can't be worthless and the center of the universe all at the same time, right? But you'll never know which one is right because no one is truly qualified to give you the "right" answer other than yourself, and yet you've been trained from day one to never trust your own judgement, it always has to be backed up by an outside source. Or anyhow, that's the observation I've made.
    Ooh, yeah, totally. This too. It was "vice versa" for me -- in late elementary/middle school, I could never figure out whether I was as awesome as my parents, teachers, and family friends told me I was, or as horrible and disgusting as i must have been to justify having so few friends.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #30
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    yep, high ideals and mixed messages.

    i think the thing i am most ashamed of is my body, even though you probably would not guess it.

    here are all the messages that i am presented with:

    from my parents - you look good! you have lost a lot of weight.
    from my boyfriend - i love your body. don't change.
    from magazines - you are too short and too heavy to look like what we consider ideal.
    from TV - you should not have cellulite.
    from scientific articles - pretty much all women have cellulite. even some men, surprise!
    from BMI calculation - you are too heavy.
    from doctor's assessment of my BMI - your significant muscle mass makes your BMI a poor measure of your health.
    from doctor - you are average and in fine health.

    and so on.

    what is a girl to think?

    i have been winning the fight over my own self-esteem now for several years, but it remains a fight.

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