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  1. #81
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    Mmm.

    I came across an Indigo Children book while browsing in a bookstore quite some time ago. It was just too new-agey and "I Am Special" for me to take it seriously.

    However, as a parent of a child with dyslexia and ADD inattentive type and another with Asperger and auditory processing disorders, I can see why a parent or labeled individual might come up with this concept. It might be a way of dispelling a great deal of negativity that comes with having such disorders?

    Or to take it further, someone who has suffered a great deal with not being able to fit in mainstream society or even their own family. Turning, "I am a misfit" to "I am marginalized because I am special/different/unique."

    I don't think that special labels are needed to raise like this the right way. Some kids have very sensitive natures. They will need very different treatment from their tough-minded and thick-skinned sibling(s).
    I also have a child with Dyslexia. I view this whole idea in a different way to you though.
    It's an out there idea, but i like out there idea's and i get very upset when people are so discriminatory.
    I do not undertand why the idea is viewed with such contempt, it maybe goes to show why many of these children have had such a difficult time.
    Society has a lot to learn.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  2. #82
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    You can't do business in a vaccuum. At some point you have to interact with others and that requires some use of social skills. Having a good relationship with suppliers and vendors and customers, etc, helps you out greatly by getting special discounts, better service, and help when you need it.

    Unless you are House or that genius crazy guy in "A Beautiful Mind"... you need to employ some variety of social skills in order to get around in this world.

    Edit: I am self-employed running my own online/brickmortar store... and I had to whip up some social skills in a hurry because I was not social or graceful in any way interacting with other people. What @Randomnity says about needing social skills MORE is very, very true. There are less people to hide behind and fake it than I would have were I to be involved in a large corporation.

    Saturned, you can't do anything in a vaccuum.
    That is not what i was suggesting. I was merely pointing out that the internet has allowed many people who find social interaction difficult/have poor social skills to have employment. The internet is welcoming to those who are more introverted, shy, socially awkward. This extends to the job market.
    I was pointing out to Randomnity that a large sector of people work online from home, it was a direct response to this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post

    lol... I suppose there are a few jobs where you can earn money over the internet, but they are few and far between.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Saturned, you can't do anything in a vaccuum.
    That is not what i was suggesting. I was merely pointing out that the internet has allowed many people who find social interaction difficult/have poor social skills to have employment. The internet is welcoming to those who are more introverted, shy, socially awkward. This extends to the job market.
    I was pointing out to Randomnity that a large sector of people work online from home, it was a direct response to this....
    I was responding to your assertation that social skills aren't critical to job success:

    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Realism yes, unhealthy and negative critisism no.
    I know which i have seen more of in this thread.
    My point would be to concentrate on the area's that children excel in.
    Yes you may work on the areas they have difficulty with too but to put too much focus on these areas of difficulty is a recipie for disaster.
    And how silly of you to think that social skills are "critical" for pretty much any career you can imagine.
    We are in the age of da internetz.
    I don't think that you can get by without social skills for "pretty much any career you can imagine." The internet helps a little bit, but there are plenty of people who aren't skilled, aren't educated, and don't have social skills for whom the internet isn't going to be a giant savior.

    The majority of my business used to be online and that sort of helped because it's much easier to be polite in typing to someone than having to mask voice tones and facial expressions. But you still have to have social skills.

    I think it's a detriment to society if social skills go the way of the dinosaur.

  4. #84
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    I also have a child with Dyslexia. I view this whole idea in a different way to you though.
    It's an out there idea, but i like out there idea's and i get very upset when people are so discriminatory.
    I do not undertand why the idea is viewed with such contempt, it maybe goes to show why many of these children have had such a difficult time.
    Society has a lot to learn.
    I think I didn't make myself clear. I let both of my kids know early on that they were different. I made sure not to define different as 'bad, special, deficient, etc.'. Not above or below. Just different. I let them know they would have difficulty in certain things but that there were ways around it and we would find those ways. I also let them know that they would encounter judgment from others because they were different. Most likely in negative ways because their achievements may not match their intelligence.

    I consider this thing with the Indigo Children to be different. I do not know a lot about it but it seems more applicable to temperament rather than LDs. Again, I do think that there are some kids with highly sensitive natures. I have a child like this. He is extra work for me because raising him calls for skills that I do not have in abundance. But I do it because I am his parent and I consider it responsible parenting. So, I don't think the idea is necessarily bad. I guess I find it irksome because of how the idea is put out there. It just seems obvious to me that children are individuals and should be treated accordingly.

  5. #85
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I was responding to your assertation that social skills aren't critical to job success:
    Pfft. Wut?
    And so the misinterpretation/misrepresentation continues.
    Initially i was referring to the maths whizz who finds social situations difficult.




    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I don't think that you can get by without social skills for "pretty much any career you can imagine." The internet helps a little bit, but there are plenty of people who aren't skilled, aren't educated, and don't have social skills for whom the internet isn't going to be a giant savior.
    I did not say this, i hope you are not implying it is my point of view.
    All people require some level of social skill to be able to function within a society, however the internet has helped a great deal for people who find it difficult.
    And i agree with the last part although i'd change the last sentance to "don't have good social skills".

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    The majority of my business used to be online and that sort of helped because it's much easier to be polite in typing to someone than having to mask voice tones and facial expressions. But you still have to have social skills.

    I think it's a detriment to society if social skills go the way of the dinosaur.
    Right, i'm glad there is some admittance here. Again i have not talked about anyone having no social skills. I work online for myself also, i have a small business but you could term it self employed. I recognise a huge difference in the level of required interaction compared with working for someone else, for example, in an office.
    And yes to the last part
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  6. #86
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    I also have a child with Dyslexia. I view this whole idea in a different way to you though.
    It's an out there idea, but i like out there idea's and i get very upset when people are so discriminatory.
    I do not undertand why the idea is viewed with such contempt, it maybe goes to show why many of these children have had such a difficult time.
    Society has a lot to learn.
    Look, I'm only speaking for myself here, not Redbone - but a few things IMO:

    - I don't care how indigo/blue/magenta these kids are. They're going to have to get a fucking grip one day in adulthood and realize that despite their strengths, and often, in order to best exercise them, they're going to have to work on their weaknesses.

    - Yes, sometimes weaknesses ARE really weaknesses - not "misunderstood strengths" that these feel-good books market them as.

    - I think it encourages a simultaneous blend of self-pity turned arrogance. "Society thinks I have this weakness...but that means I have x strength, which society doesn't have. If I value that trait, which this book is causing me to do, then my superiority within this trait means superiority in general!"

    - There's no system/organization/science. MBTI, imho, is iffy pop-science as well, but at least it's built on the basis of logic, formed into a system, and tangibly put to use. The whole Indigo Children concept is a vague composition of traits that everyone fancies themselves as having (we all think we're misunderstood, brilliant snowflakes), and then ego-wanking off.

    If I had a kid, I'd not make any accomodations for anything other a diagnosed medical condition. I'll throw him into the world, require him to cope and toughen up.
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  7. #87
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    Look, I'm only speaking for myself here, not Redbone - but a few things IMO:

    - I don't care how indigo/blue/magenta these kids are. They're going to have to get a fucking grip one day in adulthood and realize that despite their strengths, and often, in order to best exercise them, they're going to have to work on their weaknesses.
    For this i refer you to my previous post...

    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Realism yes, unhealthy and negative critisism no.
    I know which i have seen more of in this thread.
    My point would be to concentrate on the area's that children excel in.
    Yes you may work on the areas they have difficulty with too but to put too much focus on these areas of difficulty is a recipie for disaster.
    I didn't say people should not work on thier weaknesses but that the weaknesses should not be the focal point, the strengths should be imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    - Yes, sometimes weaknesses ARE really weaknesses - not "misunderstood strengths" that these feel-good books market them as.

    - I think it encourages a simultaneous blend of self-pity turned arrogance. "Society thinks I have this weakness...but that means I have x strength, which society doesn't have. If I value that trait, which this book is causing me to do, then my superiority within this trait means superiority in general!"
    Yes sometimes they are, and also sometimes they are not. The problem we have here is what society defines as weakness is often just not mainstream, so it dosn't fit in so easily. For example i have a son with dyslexia... for many years dyslexic children were considered lazy and stupid. We now understand this is not the case. The stigma still lingers and they often do not fit into mainstream education because they have a different learning style. Square peg round hole.
    I am not saying that this is the case with Indigo/crystal children or that i believe it, just that i have an open mind towards it.




    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    - There's no system/organization/science. MBTI, imho, is iffy pop-science as well, but at least it's built on the basis of logic, formed into a system, and tangibly put to use. The whole Indigo Children concept is a vague composition of traits that everyone fancies themselves as having (we all think we're misunderstood, brilliant snowflakes), and then ego-wanking off.
    What are you talking about, we are all special snowflakes
    Ego-wanking...no thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    If I had a kid, I'd not make any accomodations for anything other a diagnosed medical condition. I'll throw him into the world, require him to cope and toughen up.
    Wow!
    I sincerely hope you mature befor you have children.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  8. #88
    Anew Leaf
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Pfft. Wut?
    And so the misinterpretation/misrepresentation continues.
    Initially i was referring to the maths whizz who finds social situations difficult.






    I did not say this, i hope you are not implying it is my point of view.
    All people require some level of social skill to be able to function within a society, however the internet has helped a great deal for people who find it difficult.
    And i agree with the last part although i'd change the last sentance to "don't have good social skills".



    Right, i'm glad there is some admittance here. Again i have not talked about anyone having no social skills. I work online for myself also, i have a small business but you could term it self employed. I recognise a huge difference in the level of required interaction compared with working for someone else, for example, in an office.
    And yes to the last part

    I still stand by what I said, and I did read the entire thread.

    I have a friend who's eldest son is near genius when it comes to math and science and computers. He had huge difficulties with social interactions when he was younger. Her response was not to go "oh I have a special little indigo boy here!", her response was to make social skills a focal point. He's now 19 and in college, and does a great job with other people... Even though that isn't naturally his strong suit. He just got a 6 month internship to work for a computer company in CA, when these internships primarily go to seniors. They liked him because he is smart, but they said they also liked how polite he was and felt he would be easy to work with... And that's why he got the job ahead of hundreds of other students.

    Kids need to learn social skills, and if they suck at it, maybe that means they need to learn them more instead of slapping a label on them and making excuses.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Ideas about how to raise children and how they ought to behave have changed radically in the past two generations. School was way more regimented and strict and less tolerant of kids who couldn't sit still and be quiet and orderly, etc., and the workplace was way less tolerant of any kind of personal life intruding, including making provisions for parents, needs for flex time or different schedules, much less working from home. Some people thrive on that atmosphere but some people really suffer under heavily structured atmospheres, when they could be making a contribution if some accommodation can be made for their what-used-to-be-thought-of-as inadequacies. I see a lot of working from home in my life. My neighbor is an assistant and she works from home 3 days a week! I'm on a four-day work week (4 long days and one day off). The main person I work for is almost never in the office, but responds to email pretty much 24/7, as do I.

    There is also a definite shift at least where I work towards giving more affirmations and cultivating an environment more sensitive to peoples' feelings and needs as individuals. Part of this is because the profession has shifted to much higher numbers of women (when it was, 20 years ago, fairly rare to see a woman law partner), and part of it is because the younger generations just operate that way.

    Characteristics of Indigo children (some of whom are said to have come here in the 50's, to start paving the way toward this kind of change) are now almost mainstream.

    Descriptions of indigo children include the belief that they are empathetic, curious, strong-willed, independent, and often perceived by friends and family as being strange; possess a clear sense of self-definition and purpose; and also exhibit a strong inclination towards spiritual matters from early childhood. Indigo children have also been described as having a strong feeling of entitlement, or "deserving to be here." Other alleged traits include a high intelligence quotient, an inherent intuitive ability, and resistance to authority.[4][6] According to Tober and Carroll, indigo children function poorly in conventional schools due to their rejection of authority, being smarter than their teachers, and a lack of response to guilt-, fear- or manipulation-based discipline.[7] (wiki)


    I am biased, of course, because that description matches me to a T. I was at my mother's house last week, and looked at old pictures and my old report cards starting from kindergarden, and all the remarks were the same, and reflected the above characteristics as unfortunate and to be corrected. That attitude and the trying to force me to knuckle down and submit made me take up a lot of energy fighting something that was kind of unnecessary to begin with. (For me, it wasn't that I rejected authority, it's that I didn't recognize it, and that's pretty much from birth. If my mother tried to be authoritarian with me, it amused me. If she beat me in frustration, I was indignant. I was born that way. I remember as far back as about 3 years old wondering who this person was who thought she should boss me around and interfere with my will.)

  10. #90
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I still stand by what I said, and I did read the entire thread.

    I have a friend who's eldest son is near genius when it comes to math and science and computers. He had huge difficulties with social interactions when he was younger. Her response was not to go "oh I have a special little indigo boy here!", her response was to make social skills a focal point. He's now 19 and in college, and does a great job with other people... Even though that isn't naturally his strong suit. He just got a 6 month internship to work for a computer company in CA, when these internships primarily go to seniors. They liked him because he is smart, but they said they also liked how polite he was and felt he would be easy to work with... And that's why he got the job ahead of hundreds of other students.

    Kids need to learn social skills, and if they suck at it, maybe that means they need to learn them more instead of slapping a label on them and making excuses.
    Good for you.
    I don't think they mention being "near genius when it comes to math and science and computers" in reference to indigo children but if you want to make the connection ok.
    Sounds possibly asbergers, they have a tendancy to be overly formal which is often interpreted as being polite, (and may be).
    I really don't know the situation at all though.
    It's nice to hear of someone doing well who has particular difficulties and i'm really happy that whatever his parents have been doing seems to work.
    Parents who are in touch with their childs needs tend to know the best form of help to give/get them, esp pro active parents.
    Lets not forget though that each person is different and responds differently too.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

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