User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 48

  1. #11
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    7,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    What makes someone a good therapist and what makes someone a bad therapist?

    I imagine there's such a thing as them having different styles and some being good and some bad.

    This came to mind because a friend of mine wants to be a therapist. She has a "tough love" approach to everything and is very blunt. It's like Dr. Phil but without any finesse (do they teach finesse in school?) She says that she's all about making people accountable and that she's not interested in providing long-term therapy for anyone. She said that short-term therapy is what she wants to do because in her words "people will drain you if you let them". I thought this was odd.

    When I think of a therapist, I think of patient, enduring, understanding and helpful. Maybe that's what I think I need if I went to a therapist, but I can see how some people need tough love.
    Hey Jiggly,

    Statistically, they say that the best predictor of therapy is a therapist's empathy, nothing else. I haven't read those studies, but it's a popular statistic they teach you in psych grad school.

    I think different styles work for different people depending on their background, how they think, and what they need. That applies for both therapists and patients.

    Personally, I've had a bunch of experience counseling friends and I've decided that people benefit most not from getting answers or creating plans, but from creating a genuine connection to another person. I think most dysfunction comes from people not being settled, mentally and emotionally, and I think bonding helps them do this. Solving problems tends to have a decent intellectual impact, but it's short-lived and can cause a person to become more obsessed with their problem, more high strung, and lead to more dysfunction.

    Here's one of my favorite videos. This is a bit like what your friend was talking about. It's akin to reality therapy and existential therapy (also what your friend is describing). Look at how the therapist doesn't pull any punches, but manages to be sincere and kind.

    [YOUTUBE="_QMCtVRMzUo"]_QMCtVRMzUo[/YOUTUBE]

  2. #12
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    iSFj
    Enneagram
    2 sx/so
    Posts
    9,666

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    <snip>
    My friend plans to do biblical counseling. She going to do the tough love thing and also use biblical verses to help people.

    I think the best therapists must have some sort of balance, where they aren't too tough or too soft. Maybe that's why Dr. Phil was so successful.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    <snip>
    Yeah the guy in that video seems more empathetic, methodical and patient than my friend. My friend is more curt and short.

  3. #13
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenon View Post
    I do think that there are certain qualities all therapists should have. Even in an blunt approach like the above, the client should feel respected and listened to. You can respect someone as a person even while showing them that their beliefs or actions are absurd. And you'd need to continually listen to people and be open to new information about them, rather than quickly deciding what someone's deal is and what's best for them and stubbornly pushing that no matter what (last counsellor I saw did this...really pissed me off). Just to mention a few necessary abilities/traits, I'm sure there's more.
    Yes to the bolded. I forgot to add that before in my rant. :P The therapist has to gain the clients trust and not abuse it. I think some people who seek therapy are especially vulnerable and susceptible to idealizing their therapist or depending on the relationship or basically have self-esteem issues. So a good therapist knows the balancing act and is good with boundaries.

    Heh. Well, at the risk of being suspected to be the same type as your ex (and I'm "hazarding a guess" that it isn't the one I've listed), I'll confess to having been in that position myself. Not for eight years, but too long. It wasn't that I thought feeling good around my therapist was enough...but I liked being around him so much I kept rationalizing it to myself, telling myself it could start working at some point. It was like people can get in bad relationships: telling themselves 'we can make this work, we can make this work' because they're attached to the person and don't want it to be over, and it isn't until it has been over for a while that you look back on it and go 'What the hell was I thinking?'
    Interesting - I'm quite surprised to hear that it's the relationship that is supposedly the most important aspect of a successful therapy run. For myself, perhaps it's my tendency to keep an appropriate distance to other people, but I would naturally try NOT to bond or like my therapist too much. Because then it becomes more of a personal relationship than a professional one and it would take the focus away from ME! ME! ME! and my issues. And seriously, you're paying the person (usually A LOT of money per hour). My friends are very different (because they are Fe?) but they form personal relationships with their contractor, their personal trainers, etc. and will invite them over for a meal. Personally, that is really anti-intuitive and unnatural for me.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  4. #14
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    My friend plans to do biblical counseling. She going to do the tough love thing and also use biblical verses to help people.

    I think the best therapists must have some sort of balance, where they aren't too tough or too soft. Maybe that's why Dr. Phil was so successful.
    I agree about balance and boundaries. Therapists shouldn't steam roll their patients or decide what's best for them and not listen to them anymore. Or bend too much to the patient and try to be liked.

    Having said that - Dr. Phil, really? I thought he was a smug jerk. Was he even licensed as a therapist or counselor? I think he was popular because he made for good television and could find participants whose dysfunction was relatable (like overbearing mother in laws) to the audience or was just entertaining.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  5. #15
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,911

    Default

    This looks kind of like the popular debate about being honest as opposed to being an asshole.

    A therapist needs to be honest in order maintain trust with the patient and not screw with the patient's sense of reality. That still gives the therapist a lot of options because there are many tacts to being honest. The word pushy came up here and I know that wouldn't work on me at all. Pushiness makes me talk less. As long as a therapist gets a chance to comment at all, they have a chance to be honest with me about what they think, so pushiness isn't necessary anyhow.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  6. #16
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    What makes someone a good therapist and what makes someone a bad therapist?
    I imagine there's such a thing as them having different styles and some being good and some bad.
    Yes, I think maybe there can be some downright "good" therapists and some really 'terrible" therapists, but typically therapists are decent, and whether they are "good or bad" for someone is based on what that person needs and whether the therapist can provide it.


    This came to mind because a friend of mine wants to be a therapist. She has a "tough love" approach to everything and is very blunt. It's like Dr. Phil but without any finesse (do they teach finesse in school?) She says that she's all about making people accountable and that she's not interested in providing long-term therapy for anyone. She said that short-term therapy is what she wants to do because in her words "people will drain you if you let them". I thought this was odd.
    I think there's a market for that, just as much as there is a market for life coaches vs career counselors vs therapists vs mentors vs whatever other type of "people helping/teaching" that we can imagine. The angle is just a little different for each. Your friend sounds more like she just wants someone to come with a difficult problem that they're desperate to resolve, she wants to get the data, and she wants to spit out and answer and send them on their way. That's kind of like a troubleshooter or advisor or fixer approach. Some people want that, and sometimes it is appropriate.

    However, other people have chronic/pervasive issues maybe even based on an entrenched distorted view of the world, and those kinds of issues do not resolve overnight. The therapist typically has to enter into the situation with the person and provide some sort of anchor/protective embrace so the person can be stretched and explore themselves and slowly change how they see things, resulting in getting back in sync and having a healthy view of reality. This kind of long-term haul, where she has to "be with" someone rather than just troubleshooting their problems and not getting involved in the emotional mess, sounds like something that frustrates and bores your friend. She wouldn't be effective in a situation like that, nor is she willing to make the committment to be there for someone long-term and put herself on hold in order to help them.

    We're basically comparing a "people-centered" approach with a "problem-solving" approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Having said that - Dr. Phil, really? I thought he was a smug jerk. Was he even licensed as a therapist or counselor? I think he was popular because he made for good television and could find participants whose dysfunction was relatable (like overbearing mother in laws) to the audience or was just entertaining.
    I read a few articles about him years back. I forget what he was into to start with, but I think he did try to do conventional therapy for a bit and hated it... because he' s a problem-solver, and he was sick of listening to people emo about their problems. So he found a niche for himself.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #17
    Junior Member HisGirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    MBTI
    XNXJ
    Posts
    8

    Default

    I had a short session with a woman who seemed like she hated me personally (I've seen two therapists before for my phobias) and this time I just got tested, for a professional-related assessment test. I basically came in to the office and took the test and was given a couple of consultation sessions. There are a number of therapists in that firm, but I was unlucky to get this one.

    She was very judgmental as opposed to empathetic or methodologically understanding. Wow. I was quite baffled. She basically asked me how much I earned as a writer (!) and asked me my employer's salary system and implied I was lazy and unmotivated. I came in with a couple of classmates (in graduate school) and they came out fine. Their therapists helped them figure out what kind of work environment they would fit in best and what kind of work they should do upon graduation. My therapist was almost spiteful with me! She kept putting me down. I was really surprised. Wow!

  8. #18
    Junior Member feisty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HisGirl View Post
    I had a short session with a woman who seemed like she hated me personally.... She was very judgmental as opposed to empathetic or methodologically understanding. Wow. I was quite baffled. My therapist was almost spiteful with me! She kept putting me down.
    I have been on and off in therapy for [among other things] an eating disorder and family issues. When I was 17 I was assigned to my second therapist after a particularly trying time in my young life. Not only was she devoid of empathy towards my situations, she actually told me how to feel. I brought in a letter one day that I had written to a family member who had been a huge source of unrest in my family and a huge trigger for me in terms of my life being out of my control. It was strictly my thoughts on paper, and rather than unleashing them upon my family and causing more turmoil, I decided to read it to her out loud so she could understand how I felt about the injustice being done to my family. She proceeded to tell me that I was wrong for being upset and that my parents brought it upon themselves. I was so enraged and hurt that the one person I was trying to go to for understanding of my frustrations was sitting there telling me how to feel. That's like anti-therapy 101.

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    The therapist has to gain the clients trust and not abuse it. I think some people who seek therapy are especially vulnerable and susceptible to idealizing their therapist or depending on the relationship or basically have self-esteem issues. So a good therapist knows the balancing act and is good with boundaries.
    EXACTLY. They need to recognize when their clients are fragile. In my younger years, therapy meant to talk about things and have someone agree with you. It didn't translate to me as a teenager that therapy was supposed to make you come to grips with reality. When the wrong therapist got ahold of me they really did some damage to me, because although they told me things I didn't want to but needed to hear, they also were completely unaware and insensitive to my age, mentality and my own sensitivities to certain things. It was like they had one way of dealing with clients no matter their background or demographic, and they specialize in opinions and cold hard facts and if you can't handle that then you just need to cry yourself a river, build a bridge and get the fuck over it.

    Which leads me to.......
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, I think maybe there can be some downright "good" therapists and some really 'terrible" therapists, but typically therapists are decent, and whether they are "good or bad" for someone is based on what that person needs and whether the therapist can provide it.
    The therapist I have now is awesome. Since she specializes in eating disorders, she can actually truly put herself in my place and say "I really do understand that mentality." However, she can even do one better, because she can say "I get it. Now here's what's wrong with that thinking and here's how to change it." The biggest difference I noticed was the changes aspect. I'd never had a therapist with actual proposed solutions to my decade long problems. She is very understanding, and lets me say my peace, but she will also literally "call bullshit" in a loving way, that makes me rethink whatever I'm talking about.... and 90% of the time I know it's bullshit too, so she's just good at not letting me trick myself into getting away with bullshit.

  9. #19
    Junior Member HisGirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    MBTI
    XNXJ
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by feisty View Post
    Not only was she devoid of empathy towards my situations, she actually told me how to feel.
    Exactly! The therapist I'm talking about also did the same thing. She kept telling me how SHE would have handled the situation, she told me about HER principles, she told me how SHE feels about it. Well, SHE had to be the most self-centered therapist I had ever encountered.

    Quote Originally Posted by feisty View Post
    I was so enraged and hurt that the one person I was trying to go to for understanding of my frustrations was sitting there telling me how to feel. That's like anti-therapy 101.
    And "enraged" and "frustrated" was exactly how I felt about her. And disappointed! I mean you come to this person who you expect to be a trained professional, you expect objectivity and impartiality and then she judges you.
    Last edited by HisGirl; 11-08-2011 at 07:37 AM. Reason: Misspelled.

  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HisGirl View Post
    Exactly! The therapist I'm talking about also did the same thing. She kelp telling me how SHE would have handled the situation, she told me about HER principles, she told me how SHE feels about it. Well, SHE had to be the most self-centered therapist I had ever encountered.

    And "enraged" and "frustrated" was exactly how I felt about her. And disappointed! I mean you come to this person who you expect to be a trained professional, you expect objectivity and impartiality and then she judges you.
    Wow. Sounds like she should have been paying you, so that she could talk you about her life.

    I typically stop sharing anything of value with family/acquaintances who behave that way consistently... let alone a therapist.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

Similar Threads

  1. Good idea or bad idea?
    By The Wailing Specter in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 03-10-2017, 03:42 PM
  2. [Ti] Endless forgiveness, good trait or bad?
    By purledbanjo in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-10-2011, 06:25 PM
  3. Do INTPs make good O.T (Occupational Therapists) ?
    By equanimity in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-28-2010, 09:44 AM
  4. Richard Dawkins good guy or bad guy?
    By Virtual ghost in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 07-08-2008, 10:00 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO