How much of you is your psychology?

[Xander]

I've always been interested in those people who appear to respond like I do. When I got talking to other INTPs I was fascinated by the parallels, then disappointed by the discrepancies. It was even more fascinating to find another INTP 9 but still there are marked differences.

I have to wonder at the concept of meeting another male, INTP, E9, with the same FIRO-B/Arno results, the same birthsign and the same birth year... (I think that's all the systems I've got results for). How similar would that person be?

This kind of leads me into thinking, how much of who we are is our psychology, as in the bit we test, mess around with and experiment on in threads all over this forum...

How much of me is the INTP/E9/ such and such?

It's probably a simple question but it's been nagging at my tired mind for too long so I figured I'd throw it to the wolves audience.

 

[Kiddo]

I think our genetics, experiences, and socialization play a much greater role in who we are than our psychology. But its hard to say to what degree since those things play a large role in the formation of our psychology. It's kind of a chicken and egg scenario.

 

[Xander]

I think our genetics, experiences, and socialization play a much greater role in who we are than our psychology. But its hard to say to what degree since those things play a large role in the formation of our psychology. It's kind of a chicken and egg scenario.

Conversely though, wouldn't you also object to the concept that you are simply an amalgamation of experiences?

To me it seems that there is a core being in people and it then get's moderated by their experiences, much like the pebbles on beaches, your edges get knocked off.

If you did meet your doppleganger then would you expect them to have lived an identical life?

If life is equivalent to a journey then what is the most influential part of the journey, the path or the walker?

 

[alcea rosea]

I think MBTI type describes only part of who we are. A personality is so multidimentional thing that no personality type description could describe it. Another thing is that if MBTI type really applies (which I doubt at times), there are still variation between types. So, people have different levels of function usage and they balance theirselves differently. Also the environment, society etc. have their effect on people and how they behave.

 

[Xander]

I think MBTI type describes only part of who we are. A personality is so multidimentional thing that no personality type description could describe it. Another thing is that if MBTI type really applies (which I doubt at times), there are still variation between types. So, people have different levels of function usage and they balance theirselves differently. Also the environment, society etc. have their effect on people and how they behave.

True. The MBTI only really was attempting to illustrate how people think. The enneagram I personally think shows people's motivations and the FRIO-B/Arno system shows more of the interpersonal side.

I do agree though. Even with all of the test which I've taken and the collated results, it doesn't seem to be quite me. There is, as always, the quote of "more than the sum of it's parts" but I'm curious as to what someone else would be like with the same psychology results. Would we be like family, mirrors, twins?

 

[Athenian200]

I think that personality testing is more about our preferences to process things a certain way, which leads to certain behavioral patterns. Of course, these could be modified by perceptions and experiences, as well as underlying traits/preferences that might not be measured by MBTI. Right now all we have are generalizations about commonly perceived ways of processing information, inferred from careful analysis of behavior.

My belief is that our present selves are the result of our innate tendencies (themselves the result of our DNA, oddities in it's transcoding, as well as the specific effects of particular prenatal events), all modified by our particular sequences of learning and experience, as well the impact of our environment upon our health (via nutrition, disease resistance, exposure to bacteria, toxic substances, and medicine.)

The problem of personality testing is trying to define all the effects of these particular things in such a way as to quantify everything that a person is on a mental level. We can't seem to do that, and it may be due to not being able to see the system perfectly, as we are inside of it and thus constrained by its inherent processing limitations in a way that may be difficult (if not impossible) to overcome.

Your main question will likely end up asking if we have something along the lines of "a soul," and whether or not this impacts our behavior in an immeasurable way. I must say that I don't know, and that if this is the case, we cannot know one way or the other. It is one possibility, but it is also possible that we simply don't understand the complexity of our own minds on a literal/mechanical level well enough to precisely articulate the things that make one person distinct from another on a mental/emotional level. If it's the first, further examination is likely futile. If it's the second, we can likely improve our knowledge. I'm not sure which possibility would be preferable.

 

[INTJMom]

Does psychology and MBTT mean similar things? If so, then this is my answer:

MBTT measures how a person takes in information - S or N
what criteria we use to make decisions - T or F
whether our lives are inward focused or outward focused - I or E
and whether we prefer closure or leaving options open - J or P
and each of these is on a continuum of strength or weakness.
(in a nutshell, no hate-mail please :rolli

I see these things as a skeleton which provides a basic supporting framework, but does not entirely define a person. Once we take in information, for instance, we have to decide what to do with it. It is here where our soul - our mind, will and emotions - has a say in the process.

Just because I am an INTJ doesn't mean I have to behave as an uncaring Vulcan. By my will, I can choose to be compassionate toward others, even though it doesn't come easily. I can learn to be diplomatic by watching others for whom it comes naturally. Why? Because "What goes around comes around", and I like it when people treat me with diplomacy.

How much of "me" is dictated by MBTT? I don't know... maybe 50%... maybe 75%?

My point is that a person doesn't have to be a "victim" of their type if they don't want to be. We can overcome our "blind spots" as Barron and Tieger call them.

 

[Xander]

Your main question will likely end up asking if we have something along the lines of "a soul," and whether or not this impacts our behavior in an immeasurable way. I must say that I don't know, and that if this is the case, we cannot know one way or the other. It is one possibility, but it is also possible that we simply don't understand the complexity of our own minds on a literal/mechanical level well enough to precisely articulate the things that make one person distinct from another on a mental/emotional level. If it's the first, further examination is likely futile. If it's the second, we can likely improve our knowledge. I'm not sure which possibility would be preferable.

I'm not sure if I'd distinguish between myself and my soul, if I were to ascribe to such things. It'd be rather unnerving to think that the core of my identity is separate to the current form of that identity. Oooh I could get MPD properly then!

Does psychology and MBTT mean similar things? If so, then this is my answer:

MBTT measures how a person takes in information - S or N
what criteria we use to make decisions - T or F
whether our lives are inward focused or outward focused - I or E
and whether we prefer closure or leaving options open - J or P
and each of these is on a continuum of strength or weakness.
(in a nutshell, no hate-mail please :rolli

Now there's an INTJ who's learned

(Mind you half of the INTJs I have know of would probably enjoy the hate mail!)

I see these things as a skeleton which provides a basic supporting framework, but does not entirely define a person. Once we take in information, for instance, we have to decide what to do with it. It is here where our soul - our mind, will and emotions - has a say in the process.

Just because I am an INTJ doesn't mean I have to behave as an uncaring Vulcan. By my will, I can choose to be compassionate toward others, even though it doesn't come easily. I can learn to be diplomatic by watching others for whom it comes naturally. Why? Because "What goes around comes around", and I like it when people treat me with diplomacy.

How much of "me" is dictated by MBTT? I don't know... maybe 50%... maybe 75%?

That's kind of the idea... I'm wondering if the whole idea about humans working off effectively 1s and 0s (synapses firing) is right. If you think about it there should be some point at which if two structures are tested as the same to a certain level then they should appear to be very similar. However I have the nagging feeling that if you got two people of the same year, birth month, MBTI type, enneagram, FIRO-B/Arno... then they'd still be very much individuals.

I guess it could be experience but I hate the simple answers. They always smack of applying a lazy brain to me... Hence the query...

My point is that a person doesn't have to be a "victim" of their type if they don't want to be. We can overcome our "blind spots" as Barron and Tieger call them.

Precisely Correct.

(What am I saying... you're an INTJ... what an obvious statement .. )

Type is not a straight-jacket and neither is it a safety blanket. It should be used neither as an excuse nor a prescriptive path.

If this is a journey then perhaps your type is the kind of shoes you have on your feet?

 

[INTJMom]

... If you think about it there should be some point at which if two structures are tested as the same to a certain level then they should appear to be very similar. However I have the nagging feeling that if you got two people of the same year, birth month, MBTI type, enneagram, FIRO-B/Arno... then they'd still be very much individuals.

Precisely!

If this is a journey then perhaps your type is the kind of shoes you have on your feet?

Brilliant!

 

[Jae Rae]

Fascinating thread. My husband is also an INTP, E9. He's never been tested for either one, but he's the guy who's staying calm, keeping the peace and coming up with solutions while everyone else is worrying and/or yelling. A friend once called him the Human Buffer Zone.

My boss was the same combination. Their general way of being, speaking, presenting themselves to the world is the same - calm, self-assured, confident. Friendly, but a little too detached to be called warm. Can get along with many kinds of people, but have few close friends.

But they have their own distinct preferences, not to mention personal histories and experiences. My boss was raised in a wealthy family and attended Yale. My husband had a blue-collar father, went to community college and never got a higher degree. One of them spoke several languages and married a French woman, the other failed French. Those facts are part of their psychology. And it wouldn't be different if they were born in the same year or month.

Jae Rae

 

[prplchknz]

I think MBTI type describes only part of who we are. A personality is so multidimentional thing that no personality type description could describe it. Another thing is that if MBTI type really applies (which I doubt at times), there are still variation between types. So, people have different levels of function usage and they balance theirselves differently. Also the environment, society etc. have their effect on people and how they behave.

A good way to prove this is with clones. You create two clones of the same person put one clone in one enviroment then put the other in a different one, and see how different they become with their beliefs, and outlook of life, and see how different their choices are. I'd love to see something like this carried out.

Also I don't want people of my type to be exactly like me, that would get boring. Most of the time when I meet someone too much like myself I usually end up hating them.

 

[nightning]

*mumbles*

Two identical twins => not the same personality, not the same MBTI type (close... but not the same)... I think that sufficiently illustrates the effect of the environment on personality/behaviour. Oh and I'm of the camp which does not believe MBTI type is strictly due to genetics.

Also people far underestimate the effect of the situation on behavior... personality only accounts for like max 30% variation in people's behavior.

 

[prplchknz]

wait what?(did I miss something in this thread) I didn't say twins nor did I say that I expected them to be the same type, though part of me does but the other part of me wouldn't be suprised if they aren't . I said clones cuz it's the closest to the same person you can get, unless you know how to reincarnate someone and put them in a totally different life next time around. It would either prove or disprove that enviroment affects personality, of course you'd probably have to do this a bunch a different times.

 

[nightning]

wait what?(did I miss something in this thread) I didn't say twins nor did I say that I expected them to be the same type, though part of me does but the other part of me wouldn't be suprised if they aren't . I said clones cuz it's the closest to the same person you can get, unless you know how to reincarnate someone and put them in a totally different life next time around. It would either prove or disprove that enviroment affects personality, of course you'd probably have to do this a bunch a different times.

I was merely expanding on your idea of clones... monozygotic twins would have the identical set of genes... which is essentially "clone-like". So a natural experiment of your "cloning" idea has already been done. I was merely reporting the summarized results that they found. Well I suppose Ni jumped a couple of steps and started relating to types of twins here in the forum. My apologies...

Anyways, similarity of traits between MZ twins raised apart is ~60% (Minnesota twin study or whatnot... there's like 3 of them giving you similar results). Where is the other 40% differences coming from? The environment.

 

[prplchknz]

are we 100% sure that monozygotic twins have identical sets of genes? or is it possible that we think so but their could still be minut descrepancies?

 

[nightning]

I believe it's been defined as having same set of genes but functional expression of the genes varies. Gene expression is related to environmental factors... hence even for MZ twins, you see differences.

Twin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Their traits and physical appearances are not exactly the same; although they have nearly identical DNA[1], environmental conditions both inside the womb and throughout their lives influence the switching on and off of various genes.

 

[GZA]

I think our psychology is only sort of a very basic foundation for our personality and lives. The foundation itself is built into a larger foundation by our environment and circumstances (aka nature and nurture).

I think in terms of MBTI, our type is probably more or less just how we are born (but not genetically inherited), but how our psychological functions work is a matter of environment so two people who grew up in a similar environment with the same type will still be infinitely different from one another.

 

[LucrativeSid]

A very small percentage. 10% at the most.

 

[dancinglissa]

I agree with everyone on this, but I also think it depends on the type and the person. People who don't have much depth to their personality might be like another like them.

 

[LucrativeSid]

Even clones and twins could easily be exposed to different amounts of testosterone and stuff like that while they are still developing in the womb. A difference in testosterone can make a remarkable difference in how they turn out. And that's just one example.