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  1. #21
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    @RevlisZero Are you really not typing as a 4 now?
    I say that because the 4 often convinces themself that they are too different, too complex, etc, to ever be understood by anyone, to ever connect with anyone, and yet that is usually what they desire most. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy for them. If you want to connect with people, then you have to change your mindset; the behavioral change of getting out more is just part of it. Sure, anyone may fall into this thinking, but it's has the stamp of the 4 all over it.
    Yeah, this does seem rather 4-ish, but I've seen too many things about 4 by now that don't fit. It's definitely part of my tritype, but I don't think it's my main type. The difference, I suppose, is that I try too hard to seem normal and don't like to stand out.

  2. #22
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    I experience it a lot.... I sometimes see people more as case studies for my own interest/amusement.

  3. #23

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    In my experience, it never goes away. Even if you find yourself in a relatively well-adjusted, happy and fulfilling place in life.

    My remedy is that I don't take things - especially emotions - very seriously. So when I have depressing, existential thoughts, they don't carry with them the actual feelings of depression and hopelessness. That and I try to keep myself going, going, going as much as possible - running from those thoughts and filling every minute of my time with something else. True to an e7, I guess.

    And I've really tried to connect with the deeper side to life in the past year or so. So while I don't take my own emotions seriously, I try to take the emotions of others seriously. In that way, I guess, I'm trying to connect with the world around me as much as possible, which gives me a better sense of placement and purpose. And people like it when you show invested interest in their emotional well-being, which in turn provides you with closer relationships, which I've discovered to be paramount for a sense of well-being, purpose and belonging.

  4. #24
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    Has anyone else experienced it? It's the kind of loneliness that doesn't go away by being with other people. For me, it's the feeling that I have never, and will never, be able to connect with a single human being in any truly meaningful way. It makes friendships and social interactions seem only surface deep, unsatisfying, and ultimately meaningless. I used to think that I felt lonely because I was a recluse and didn't have enough friends, but I've found that even after making more friends and socializing daily, the loneliness hasn't gone away at all.
    I've experienced that throughout my life, for many years it was pervasive. Part of it was my situation in life, where I felt like I wasn't able to be honest about who I was... yet even after that was resolved I still do experience that feeling to some degree. For me, it is this sense that we are ultimately alone in terms of being responsible for our own lives; I cannot make someone else's choices for them, they cannot make choices for me.

    And there is always a gap between the total reality of who someone is vs their ability or willingness to disclose that; we will never ever know someone else 100%, and truly we don't even know ourselves 100% either. Even when we coexist in the same space, we are still seeing the world a bit differently, each of us having our own past and our own psychological and biological makeup, so we will never 100% share a world with another; we all live in separate worlds so to speak. It's a rift that cannot be crossed.

    I think some people are very aware of existential distance, others don't really seem to notice it. Those who are more literal-minded tend to feel lonely when others aren't around and feel happy when they are engaging others who are around; the more existential-minded can tend to feel loneliness even when someone is there and engaging. It lingers.

    I did note that self-acceptance helps lessen it. When you are not able to be honest about who and what you are and end up relating to others through a mask, that only exacerbates the loneliness. (Because the person that people know and are relating to is not you, it's just a facade; therefore you really are alone.) I've found that the few really close friendships I've developed where people know "me," they are fierce connections and I feel a lot of joy and relif within those relationships. On some level, I sense we are still alone ultimately, but it doesn't bother me nearly as much; I accept that they love me for me, and would love me even if they could find out everything about me, so it's like the willingness to accept and love is perceived as connection and closeness even if the gap of Knowing can never be crossed completely. Rationally, maybe we're still existentially alone; but I don't feel painfully alone when I'm with them.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #25
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    It's oddly comforting to know that other people experience this as well. I'm so firmilar with the feeling, I hardly notice it now. Once it caused me a lot of pain. I guess life just happened. Other things dulled the loneliness. I had several doctors diagnosed me with depression. I don't think it's that. I don't think I managed to go a day in my life without on some level asking the question "there has got to be more than this?" One day I might even find what I'm searching for. I just don't understand how people can just accept things as they are....
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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  6. #26
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    I think the worst of this type of loneliness occurs when you expect that other people will do something for you that they can't do, make you feel a certain way that you need to feel, give you something you need. They will dissapoint you because it ends up being things that you have to learn how to give yourself. That's my experience, anyway.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I think the worst of this type of loneliness occurs when you expect that other people will do something for you that they can't do, make you feel a certain way that you need to feel, give you something you need. They will dissapoint you because it ends up being things that you have to learn how to give yourself. That's my experience, anyway.
    I think, although I know my experience of work as a social worker is bound to seriously eschew my view point, that this must be pretty widespread. A lot of people expect from others things they cant or arent prepared to supply themselves. It can seriously effect their mental health and that of others when they dont rise to challenge.

    Especially when they're demanding more and more supportive or helping input from outside, that others will co-regulate their emotional states, help them deal with any agitation which threatens to escalate to a crisis or outburst, instead of self-regulating and their abscence of self-control actually drives people away, the very source which they are needing or expecting to help.

    Sorry, just venting and shit like that.

  8. #28
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I've experienced that throughout my life, for many years it was pervasive. Part of it was my situation in life, where I felt like I wasn't able to be honest about who I was... yet even after that was resolved I still do experience that feeling to some degree. For me, it is this sense that we are ultimately alone in terms of being responsible for our own lives; I cannot make someone else's choices for them, they cannot make choices for me.

    And there is always a gap between the total reality of who someone is vs their ability or willingness to disclose that; we will never ever know someone else 100%, and truly we don't even know ourselves 100% either. Even when we coexist in the same space, we are still seeing the world a bit differently, each of us having our own past and our own psychological and biological makeup, so we will never 100% share a world with another; we all live in separate worlds so to speak. It's a rift that cannot be crossed.

    I think some people are very aware of existential distance, others don't really seem to notice it. Those who are more literal-minded tend to feel lonely when others aren't around and feel happy when they are engaging others who are around; the more existential-minded can tend to feel loneliness even when someone is there and engaging. It lingers.

    I did note that self-acceptance helps lessen it. When you are not able to be honest about who and what you are and end up relating to others through a mask, that only exacerbates the loneliness. (Because the person that people know and are relating to is not you, it's just a facade; therefore you really are alone.) I've found that the few really close friendships I've developed where people know "me," they are fierce connections and I feel a lot of joy and relif within those relationships. On some level, I sense we are still alone ultimately, but it doesn't bother me nearly as much; I accept that they love me for me, and would love me even if they could find out everything about me, so it's like the willingness to accept and love is perceived as connection and closeness even if the gap of Knowing can never be crossed completely. Rationally, maybe we're still existentially alone; but I don't feel painfully alone when I'm with them.
    Excellent post.
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  9. #29
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    My perfect relationship would be one in which I and another person could always be, regardless of space and time, "alone together".

  10. #30
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    It's oddly comforting to know that other people experience this as well.
    I think it's also helpful to know this. There are other people who deeply desire to connect with other individuals in a meaningful way. What they consider meaningful may also overlap with what you consider meaningful. This creates a hope that it IS possible.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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