Feelers - your opinion re. critical thought?

[redcheerio]

OK, so I tend to take it for granted that everyone recognizes the importance of critical thought in forming, or at least refining, their opinions.

However, having read another thread, someone there was defending his right to have an opinion about limiting other people's rights based completely on his "strong visceral reaction", in seeming defiance of any critical thought whatsoever. This seems ludicrous to me.

It seems to me that this kind of thinking based on emotional reactions alone, with no critical thought as a back-up check, is what leads to lynchings and angry mobs that burn "witches" at the stake.

So, I would like to have a better understanding of your take, as a feeler, on the importance of critical thought in forming opinions and making decisions. I would think that most of you would also value critical thought, but I'd like to hear it from you. (Obviously my bias is showing.)

Thanks!

 

[CrystalViolet]

Strong visceral reactions happen for a reason, and I guess most feelers sit up and listen to that, or learn to. However it's a reasonably rare response, and for the most part, critical thinking is a part of the decision process. That and" I just don't like it " Is not an acceptable response when you move in thinker circles, LOL. In my experience any way.
How ever, I do understand why your feeler defended his right to have his visceral reactions remain unexamined. Over the years, I have learnt that red flag feeling, should never be ignored. I had lots of painful lessons regarding this. You don't examine it, you just GTFO. Once you examine it, you talk your self into situations, you reason inappropriate behavior etc.
You've got remember that, ESP. INFP's (I can only really talk about my experiences), neither Te/Ti are comfortable functions. I'm not saying we can't reason logically or are incapable of thinking ( I is a scientist), but in situations both positive and negative, some thing as primal as a visceral reaction, is gonna short circuit our learnt behavior, and utilize The longer lived and more hardy neural tracks and we will respond in the way most natural to us. As frustrating as that is, you can't change that response no matter how you reason.

 

[redcheerio]

Strong visceral reactions happen for a reason, and I guess most feelers sit up and listen to that, or learn to. However it's a reasonably rare response, and for the most part, critical thinking is a part of the decision process. That and" I just don't like it " Is not an acceptable response when you move in thinker circles, LOL. In my experience any way.

How ever, I do understand why your feeler defended his right to have his visceral reactions remain unexamined. Over the years, I have learnt that red flag feeling, should never be ignored. I had lots of painful lessons regarding this. You don't examine it, you just GTFO. Once you examine it, you talk your self into situations, you reason inappropriate behavior etc.

You've got remember that, ESP. INFP's (I can only really talk about my experiences), neither Te/Ti are comfortable functions. I'm not saying we can't reason logically or are incapable of thinking ( I is a scientist), but in situations both positive and negative, some thing as primal as a visceral reaction, is gonna short circuit our learnt behavior, and utilize The longer lived and more hardy neural tracks and we will respond in the way most natural to us. As frustrating as that is, you can't change that response no matter how you reason.

OK yes, I completely agree with trusting the red flag feeling, and trusting your gut instincts. Similar to trusting your intuition.

I edited my post to clarify, probably before you responded.

So to clarify, my question is regarding long-standing opinions (regarding politics or other people's rights, for example), as opposed to the gut instincts that are essential for self-preservation.

 

[CrystalViolet]

Right you are then,
Obviously if you come to the table with a strongly held political value, you'd have better thought through your argument, and reasons why you come to that conclusion. I feel such and such is obviously not going to cut it.

 

[redcheerio]

Right you are then,
Obviously if you come to the table with a strongly held political value, you'd have better thought through your argument, and reasons why you come to that conclusion. I feel such and such is obviously not going to cut it.

Yeah, exactly.

Would the other Fs agree?

I'd be interested to better understand your thought process.

 

[Saslou]

Rationality - I unfortunately rely more on emotion than reason unless i am on a quest to find more information, then emotion goes out the window. If someone requires my help i'll tend to focus more on reason as emotions can cloud ones judgement (but then so can reason)
I love requiring evidence and following it up to see where it leads. I rarely just take one approach as i enjoy finding alternative views. I like to ask questions.

Self Awareness - I recognise my own assumptions and prejudices but am open to different opinions. I know just because i think something, someone else may have a different opinion (even if i am right )

Honesty - I am aware i act emotionally when stressed or when i feel confined. Some of the time i'm aware of my selfish impulses, other times i just let things be and don't always put up a fight for what i believe in just to avoid conflict. I'm more aware of self deception that previously, for me it was a coping mechanism but having the chance to question my motives i feel better in myself and have come to a new understanding about my internal drives. I know i am no way finished in my quest for authenticity but i'm getting there slowly.

Open mindedness - I consider too many view points and perspectives and am open to new explanations.

Discipline - One of my weak points i must admit, lol. I have on occasion been too focused to the point that i've missed data that would of been incredibly helpful. I need to learn more discipline.

Judgement - My childrens opinions come from very different perspectives and i equally ask them to express their views and try to consider the others opinion (this rarely works). I appreciate other assumptions but i do have an issue when i can blatantly see that a person is projecting.

I suppose i am skeptical of any one opinion if we are considering science, religion and the sorts thus i look for further evidence to either reject or confirm the original notion but when it comes to people close to me i am more trusting even though i am aware that they may have their own prejudices and motives. The latter is something i am still working on.

I hope this clarifies my approach to critical thinking .. If i am slightly off the mark then please say so.

 

[011235813]

Yeah, exactly.

Would the other Fs agree?

I'd be interested to better understand your thought process.

Um ... yes?

I think committing to pure irrationality is stupid and lazy and shows a fundamental lack of introspection.

 

[Tiltyred]

People can talk all kinds of stuff they call sense about why or why not, but I've never seen anyone with a strongly-held belief change his mind because of a remark someone else made in a discussion.

 

[strychnine]

someone there was defending his right to have an opinion about limiting other people's rights based completely on his "strong visceral reaction", in seeming defiance of any critical thought whatsoever. This seems ludicrous to me.

I agree, that's ridiculous.

I think people should be able to privately believe whatever they want. Private beliefs can be unreasonable/ knee jerk reactions.

I draw the line when it starts to restrict other people's rights. Then I don't think a knee jerk opinion holds any water whatsoever. A good example is with same-sex marriage -- it's one thing to believe privately that it's wrong, but not enforce that in the public sphere, and another to use a knee jerk reaction like "it's gross!111" or "it's just wrong!!1" to deny others their rights. Indeed, that is in defiance of critical thought.

 

[kyuuei]

I think extreme emotional reactions with absolutely no logical foundations to the point on being unable to function in society correctly is a huge indicator that something is wrong with the self.. In the cases of the extreme mentioned already: racism and lynching. Not being able to control that emotion is warning flags for yourself.

Having a strong emotional reaction in and of itself isn't such an awful thing. Logic has a very good foundation in most of the things I do in life.. but it doesn't belong everywhere for me. I can be passionate about something and really have no rhyme or reason as to why, nor do I care for one. Example: being attracted to someone, or even assuming someone is a "bad person" even though they've done nothing to indicate this.. My gut is something I've been slowly learning to trust over time. It hasn't completely steered me wrong since I threw logic out the window and allowed it to slip in only to back up what my instinct has already created.

 

[Viridian]

I do sometimes feel "deficient" when it comes to certain kinds of critical thinking (e.g. deconstruction of fictional works in order to assess their ideologies - university stuff)... Pretty ironic, considering I used to be known as the "smart kid" as a child. Go figure.

 

[King sns]

I don't consider feeling to= knee jerk, visceral reactions in absence of critical thinking. I think of it as a form of thinking in itself without logic. And, some cases just don't need to be logical. You can be calm and thoughtful yet feeling at the same time. Casey Anthony case always comes to mind. Why should we report a child missing within a certain amount of time? Well, as a human, I know we just should. It's going to take a much greater amount of thinking and logic to come to this conclusion, where feeling will conclude much quicker for you. When there are a lot of strong emotions and anger in the way, I would question the conclusion. Of course critical thinking has equal value in different situations- many times when the answer is not clear from within it's likely that you have to follow a step by step process to come to the conclusion.

I test T equally as often as I test F, though. (Cognitive functions are always close too.) I'm fairly unemotional, feeling for me is just a way of making sound decisions where logic isn't needed- and I'm just a bit more natural in those situations.

 

[Anew Leaf]

In Ne mode so thoughts are sort of scattered.... fair warning!

Pure Te mode is not very comfortable for me... I feel very out of my element because I feel nothing and are out of touch with my feelings. Obvious statement is obvious... but that isn't how I normally operate. I am always feeling something, or at least I am very aware of how I am feeling on a continually changing basis. Being out of that mode makes me feel like I have lost my sense of self.

What I am most comfortable with is still being in my normal Fi mode with it working in tandem with Te. I will still feel my normal run of emotions but I am being more direct and to the point and not letting the emotions run away with me.

Overall while technically I may make decisions based on emotions - there is a "logic" to them.

Some disconnect between the thinking and feeling factions can occur when we judge the other side based on how we perform doing their functions. Ie, thinking types might consider feeling types to be making willy nilly inept decisions that have no basis in reality because that's what happens when they succomb to Fi or Fe mode. Whereas I think since feelers are built to be making decisions based on instinct and intuition and guts, we are going to be much more accurate making our decisions this way. The same is true for the flip side.

Thought process wise.... I would be happy to break down my thought process... but can you give me some parameters to work with? Like an example of a decision you would want to see how I would do it?

I hope this helps! mah ENTP fwend.

 

[redcheerio]

Thanks, everyone! Insightful answers, thanks for helping me understand better.

I might come back later with more comments or questions.

 

[CuriousFeeling]

I absolutely need to have critical thought. While I don't ignore my feelings and emotional responses to various stimuli, when the emotions get too intense and dramatic, I dislike it, and prefer to keep things calm. Critical thought gives me the means to organize my world and make sense of things. "Is this feeling reasonable in this context?" "Is said reaction the appropriate way to respond to it?" If emotional stimuli gets to be too much, I end up becoming much more logical/rational to counterbalance it... I pretty much put on a cool front, even though deep down I feel like there's a storm raging inside. While I do care a lot about people and am quite empathetic and accommodating to their needs, there are some moments where I need to emotionally separate myself from stressful situations to make sure I don't end up getting overly stressed. It's a matter of finding a delicate balance of both emotion and logic/ critical thought.

But feeling judgments actually do involve critical thought. Ethical decisions, for instance, involve a great deal of logical deductions about how your actions influence others around you, and this is how they will feel if one action was done, vs. another. Likewise, making decisions based on promoting the overall greater good of human beings, involves not a visceral reaction, but it involves a step-by-step analysis of how the social system operates, and how each component of the social system can help benefit each other and create a positive feedback loop, as opposed to a negative reinforcing loop. It requires critical thought of "A causes B, thus B influences C" type of mindframe.

I guess I'd consider myself to be a logical feeler. I am the most comfortable with having both my T and F sides strong because they support each other.

 

[strychnine]

I don't consider feeling to= knee jerk, visceral reactions in absence of critical thinking. I think of it as a form of thinking in itself without logic.
...

Oh yeah that's a good point. I posted about knee jerk reactions but those are not equivalent to feeling. That's true. Fi at least seems to have its own internal "logic", not like Ti but it's not just knee jerk reactions.

But anyway, to clarify, I view my considered, weighed opinions as valid but not my knee jerk reactions.

 

[redcheerio]

Oh yeah that's a good point. I posted about knee jerk reactions but those are not equivalent to feeling. That's true. Fi at least seems to have its own internal "logic", not like Ti but it's not just knee jerk reactions.

But anyway, to clarify, I view my considered, weighed opinions as valid but not my knee jerk reactions.

Is that true of Fi by itself with no critical thought? Or is that Fi + critical thought?

 

[strychnine]

Is that true of Fi by itself with no critical thought? Or is that Fi + critical thought?

I'm actually not sure. lol. sorry

 

[wolfy]

OK, so I tend to take it for granted that everyone recognizes the importance of critical thought in forming, or at least refining, their opinions.

However, having read another thread, someone there was defending his right to have an opinion about limiting other people's rights based completely on his "strong visceral reaction", in seeming defiance of any critical thought whatsoever. This seems ludicrous to me.

It seems to me that this kind of thinking based on emotional reactions alone, with no critical thought as a back-up check, is what leads to lynchings and angry mobs that burn "witches" at the stake.

So, I would like to have a better understanding of your take, as a feeler, on the importance of critical thought in forming opinions and making decisions. I would think that most of you would also value critical thought, but I'd like to hear it from you. (Obviously my bias is showing.)

Thanks!

Critical thought is a valuable tool in the toolbox. If that's the only tool you have and you bring it out to hammer my ideas around in the early stages all the time I'm not going to be too happy about it. But yeah, it's useful.

 

[KDude]

I would say that anything that can be held to critical thought should be. Whether someone likes Twinkies vs Cupcakes is probably not one of these. Feel free to viscerally react.