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  1. #1
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Default Feelers - your opinion re. critical thought?

    OK, so I tend to take it for granted that everyone recognizes the importance of critical thought in forming, or at least refining, their opinions.

    However, having read another thread, someone there was defending his right to have an opinion about limiting other people's rights based completely on his "strong visceral reaction", in seeming defiance of any critical thought whatsoever. This seems ludicrous to me.

    It seems to me that this kind of thinking based on emotional reactions alone, with no critical thought as a back-up check, is what leads to lynchings and angry mobs that burn "witches" at the stake.

    So, I would like to have a better understanding of your take, as a feeler, on the importance of critical thought in forming opinions and making decisions. I would think that most of you would also value critical thought, but I'd like to hear it from you. (Obviously my bias is showing.)

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Strong visceral reactions happen for a reason, and I guess most feelers sit up and listen to that, or learn to. However it's a reasonably rare response, and for the most part, critical thinking is a part of the decision process. That and" I just don't like it " Is not an acceptable response when you move in thinker circles, LOL. In my experience any way.
    How ever, I do understand why your feeler defended his right to have his visceral reactions remain unexamined. Over the years, I have learnt that red flag feeling, should never be ignored. I had lots of painful lessons regarding this. You don't examine it, you just GTFO. Once you examine it, you talk your self into situations, you reason inappropriate behavior etc.
    You've got remember that, ESP. INFP's (I can only really talk about my experiences), neither Te/Ti are comfortable functions. I'm not saying we can't reason logically or are incapable of thinking ( I is a scientist), but in situations both positive and negative, some thing as primal as a visceral reaction, is gonna short circuit our learnt behavior, and utilize The longer lived and more hardy neural tracks and we will respond in the way most natural to us. As frustrating as that is, you can't change that response no matter how you reason.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    Strong visceral reactions happen for a reason, and I guess most feelers sit up and listen to that, or learn to. However it's a reasonably rare response, and for the most part, critical thinking is a part of the decision process. That and" I just don't like it " Is not an acceptable response when you move in thinker circles, LOL. In my experience any way.

    How ever, I do understand why your feeler defended his right to have his visceral reactions remain unexamined. Over the years, I have learnt that red flag feeling, should never be ignored. I had lots of painful lessons regarding this. You don't examine it, you just GTFO. Once you examine it, you talk your self into situations, you reason inappropriate behavior etc.

    You've got remember that, ESP. INFP's (I can only really talk about my experiences), neither Te/Ti are comfortable functions. I'm not saying we can't reason logically or are incapable of thinking ( I is a scientist), but in situations both positive and negative, some thing as primal as a visceral reaction, is gonna short circuit our learnt behavior, and utilize The longer lived and more hardy neural tracks and we will respond in the way most natural to us. As frustrating as that is, you can't change that response no matter how you reason.
    OK yes, I completely agree with trusting the red flag feeling, and trusting your gut instincts. Similar to trusting your intuition.

    I edited my post to clarify, probably before you responded.

    So to clarify, my question is regarding long-standing opinions (regarding politics or other people's rights, for example), as opposed to the gut instincts that are essential for self-preservation.

  4. #4
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Right you are then,
    Obviously if you come to the table with a strongly held political value, you'd have better thought through your argument, and reasons why you come to that conclusion. I feel such and such is obviously not going to cut it.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    Right you are then,
    Obviously if you come to the table with a strongly held political value, you'd have better thought through your argument, and reasons why you come to that conclusion. I feel such and such is obviously not going to cut it.
    Yeah, exactly.

    Would the other Fs agree?

    I'd be interested to better understand your thought process.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Rationality - I unfortunately rely more on emotion than reason unless i am on a quest to find more information, then emotion goes out the window. If someone requires my help i'll tend to focus more on reason as emotions can cloud ones judgement (but then so can reason)
    I love requiring evidence and following it up to see where it leads. I rarely just take one approach as i enjoy finding alternative views. I like to ask questions.

    Self Awareness - I recognise my own assumptions and prejudices but am open to different opinions. I know just because i think something, someone else may have a different opinion (even if i am right )

    Honesty - I am aware i act emotionally when stressed or when i feel confined. Some of the time i'm aware of my selfish impulses, other times i just let things be and don't always put up a fight for what i believe in just to avoid conflict. I'm more aware of self deception that previously, for me it was a coping mechanism but having the chance to question my motives i feel better in myself and have come to a new understanding about my internal drives. I know i am no way finished in my quest for authenticity but i'm getting there slowly.

    Open mindedness - I consider too many view points and perspectives and am open to new explanations.

    Discipline - One of my weak points i must admit, lol. I have on occasion been too focused to the point that i've missed data that would of been incredibly helpful. I need to learn more discipline.

    Judgement - My childrens opinions come from very different perspectives and i equally ask them to express their views and try to consider the others opinion (this rarely works). I appreciate other assumptions but i do have an issue when i can blatantly see that a person is projecting.

    I suppose i am skeptical of any one opinion if we are considering science, religion and the sorts thus i look for further evidence to either reject or confirm the original notion but when it comes to people close to me i am more trusting even though i am aware that they may have their own prejudices and motives. The latter is something i am still working on.

    I hope this clarifies my approach to critical thinking .. If i am slightly off the mark then please say so.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    Yeah, exactly.

    Would the other Fs agree?

    I'd be interested to better understand your thought process.
    Um ... yes?

    I think committing to pure irrationality is stupid and lazy and shows a fundamental lack of introspection.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    People can talk all kinds of stuff they call sense about why or why not, but I've never seen anyone with a strongly-held belief change his mind because of a remark someone else made in a discussion.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    someone there was defending his right to have an opinion about limiting other people's rights based completely on his "strong visceral reaction", in seeming defiance of any critical thought whatsoever. This seems ludicrous to me.
    I agree, that's ridiculous.

    I think people should be able to privately believe whatever they want. Private beliefs can be unreasonable/ knee jerk reactions.

    I draw the line when it starts to restrict other people's rights. Then I don't think a knee jerk opinion holds any water whatsoever. A good example is with same-sex marriage -- it's one thing to believe privately that it's wrong, but not enforce that in the public sphere, and another to use a knee jerk reaction like "it's gross!111" or "it's just wrong!!1" to deny others their rights. Indeed, that is in defiance of critical thought.
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  10. #10
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I think extreme emotional reactions with absolutely no logical foundations to the point on being unable to function in society correctly is a huge indicator that something is wrong with the self.. In the cases of the extreme mentioned already: racism and lynching. Not being able to control that emotion is warning flags for yourself.

    Having a strong emotional reaction in and of itself isn't such an awful thing. Logic has a very good foundation in most of the things I do in life.. but it doesn't belong everywhere for me. I can be passionate about something and really have no rhyme or reason as to why, nor do I care for one. Example: being attracted to someone, or even assuming someone is a "bad person" even though they've done nothing to indicate this.. My gut is something I've been slowly learning to trust over time. It hasn't completely steered me wrong since I threw logic out the window and allowed it to slip in only to back up what my instinct has already created.
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