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Feelers - your opinion re. critical thought?

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
I would say that anything that can be held to critical thought should be. Whether someone likes Twinkies vs Cupcakes is probably not one of these. Feel free to viscerally react.

I suppose you could start with measuring of the mouth. "Twinkies work better for you due to your small mouth circumference"
 

StrawMan

New member
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
109
MBTI Type
ENTP
<snip> But feeling judgments actually do involve critical thought. Ethical decisions, for instance, involve a great deal of logical deductions about how your actions influence others around you, and this is how they will feel if one action was done, vs. another. Likewise, making decisions based on promoting the overall greater good of human beings, involves not a visceral reaction, but it involves a step-by-step analysis of how the social system operates, and how each component of the social system can help benefit each other and create a positive feedback loop, as opposed to a negative reinforcing loop. It requires critical thought of "A causes B, thus B influences C" type of mindframe.

I guess I'd consider myself to be a logical feeler. I am the most comfortable with having both my T and F sides strong because they support each other.

My idea and habits of making ethical decisions and building a value system are quite similar to what yours sounds like. So what really is the difference between thinkers' and feelers' ethical decision-making?
 

CuriousFeeling

From the Undertow
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
2,937
MBTI Type
INfJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
My idea and habits of making ethical decisions and building a value system are quite similar to what yours sounds like. So what really is the difference between thinkers' and feelers' ethical decision-making?

For thinkers, I think it depends on what their feeling cognitive process is. If someone is more Fe oriented (ENTP, ESTP, for instance), their decisions would be made based on group dynamics, organizing a group to adhere to their vision, and whether or not that vision would benefit the group. It's a way of making sure their ideas are marketable to others. Fe inferior For thinking people that are Fi oriented (i.e. INTJ, ISTJ), their code of ethics will be based on what they feel deep down is the right thing for others and themselves to do, even if they are the last person standing up to it. This is just my personal explanation for it, not sure if this applies to you, so feel free to add onto this, or subtract points.

As for feelers, their main mode of judgment comes from value based judgments. In the end, I tend to focus on the implications that my decisions have on others as well as myself, what I feel is the right thing to do to benefit both myself and the person involved in the action I will choose. The logic behind it is "how will this person feel if I did A to them?" "How will I feel as a result?" "Is this the correct mode of action?" "I want this decision to benefit the greater good of all people involved." It seems more concerned about the welfare of others involved, if this makes sense. It's the primary mindframe.

If other feelers on here have other points to add to this, have at it. :)
 

Stanton Moore

morose bourgeoisie
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
3,900
MBTI Type
INFP
I can't disconnect logic from the feeling sense. For me, they must go together. I consider it to be a gift, to be able to see multiple perspectives, to use the global sense of feeling, then test the sense with more detailed logic as needed. When logic and feeling are in accord, I have a clear sense of the truth. I'm happy to be a feeler because I learned to use it.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
MBTI Type
eNFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I like to refer to my animal instinct/intuition as a "gut feeling". It's been dead on when sizing up others and their intentions. Sometimes, I've been the only one in a group of people with my hackles standing on end because something/someone really isn't copasetic.

As to applying this to broader topics, like politics, religion, laws, etc, I take my immediate reaction to it, then take it apart, and look at it piece by piece, almost like a core sample. What happened here? What was said? What was done? What does/does not add up? I weigh what may be a bias on my part. I bounce the feelings and ultimate conclusion off a trusted person to gain a new angle. My ENFP sister is a good person for this. My Ti isn't very strong, but it IS useful when I'm on sure ground with my Ni and Fe, and it can help declutter the inevitable static.
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
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entp
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783
The real difference is that thinkers concentrate on the topic and feelers on the teacher and more of a difference there isnt in my eyes.

The concept of rationality never hold the idea to cutoff all emotions from human life that would be the concept of existentialism or the latter concept would be the result of a human who doesnt indulge in his human side.

The idea to strictly divide between logic and emotion does not work in my eyes and its not the path that will lead to wisdom and experience about life. The one or the other thinking will only make you a freak who plays a role in society to uphold some kind of strange selfimage, he once found and accepted for the sole truth.

Mbti is about preference, while I tell my girlfriend with passion in detail about a new electronics project I have finished, she cuddles the cat, writes a sms or randomly shows me a bird landing somewhere near. She just has different intrests
 

tinker683

Whackus Bonkus
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
2,882
MBTI Type
ISFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I'd say it's *very* important! My emotions can guide me and motivate me but I've always found that when I'm dealing with a situation I always need a few to withdrawal and collect myself and put my emotions in order. Simply "shooting from the hip" as it were hasn't ever served me well unless the wrong being committed is blatantly obvious (which I realize is kind of subjective to my moral value system)
 

redacted

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
4,223
Critical analysis is the best way of thinking and communicating, given the premises. Values just give you the premises.
 

thisGuy

New member
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,187
MBTI Type
entp
Feeling and thinking are equally important. I have a theory which says that both thinking and feeling will lead to the same right conclusion when applied correctly and in a mature manner.

The misconception about the 'feeling people' ( the irrational reactions) stem from the impulse decision making based on an emotion. I think that feelers are very well aware of this impulse response (characterized as 'irrational feeling') and they work to balance/overcome/suppress it in their own way. This misconception is not seen as much with thinkers because the basic block of thought (which is natural to thinkers) can usually be expressed with words. So thinkers usually use their words to respond - which, to you and I, appear as 'reasons'.

This only means that our vocabulary isn't yet evolved enough to be of use to feelers. So they fall back on the closest lexicon that can capture their feelings - "I don't like it" or "I hate him".

I think this is true because if you give feelers enough time, 1-2 weeks where the can busy themselves with other tasks and let the subconscious figure it out - they will usually be able to give you a very exact reason for what was happening that day.

But OP's main notion of critical thought still applies - what is described above are tools to do it.

A feeler's reaction to a stimuli and it's critical thought is further complicated by the resulting emotions - anger, jealousy, hurt, etc. To a thinker, these emotions are just consequences. He is able to step back from the anger he is emoting and able to use his tool of thinking to examine the situation objectively. A feeler is disadvantaged because the tools that he uses to examine the situation are also of the (feeling) kind! So before he can be critical about the situation, he first needs to learn how to separate these emotions from the feelings that were the result of the impulse response.

Then there are other factors to take into account like maturity.

Of course this is all anecdotal, I'm a thinker through and through. I don't know how to use the tools of feelings, I can only experience them as emotions.
 

StrawMan

New member
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
109
MBTI Type
ENTP
For thinkers, I think it depends on what their feeling cognitive process is. If someone is more Fe oriented (ENTP, ESTP, for instance), their decisions would be made based on group dynamics, organizing a group to adhere to their vision, and whether or not that vision would benefit the group. It's a way of making sure their ideas are marketable to others. This is just my personal explanation for it, not sure if this applies to you, so feel free to add onto this, or subtract points.

I think it also depends on thinking cognitive processes. I surely take into consideration benefiting the group and group dynamics, but I would say I also use Ti in building a value system. The goal is to build a coherent system applicaple in most situations, starting from some basic values, like benefit for people (relevant people or very large group of people), justness and fairness, equality, maximum freedom and so on. I guess it's a feeling-based judgment though why certain values end up appearing more important than others?

As for feelers, their main mode of judgment comes from value based judgments. In the end, I tend to focus on the implications that my decisions have on others as well as myself, what I feel is the right thing to do to benefit both myself and the person involved in the action I will choose. The logic behind it is "how will this person feel if I did A to them?" "How will I feel as a result?" "Is this the correct mode of action?" "I want this decision to benefit the greater good of all people involved." It seems more concerned about the welfare of others involved, if this makes sense. It's the primary mindframe.
I have a tendency to first build a sort of "universal" value framework, which is then fine-tuned for varying situations. Partly based on similar considerations than that you mentioned, "how will this person feel if I did A to them?", "how much do I change my behaviour from how I would typically treat people in this kind of situation?", "how would my behaviour benefit the good of all people involved?". I'm also heavily concerned about the welfare of others, but there comes a point, where interests of people come into conflict, and there I would lean more on fairness than keeping all people involved happy.
 
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