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Forgiving people

ceecee

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Doesn't it go forgive but don't forget? Which I take to mean stop carrying around the emotional burden but remember the event.

But I don't have an emotional burden. This is the part I can't get across to people. I don't forgive, I don't forget. Maybe my version of forgiveness is just apathy but either way, I don't feel weighed down by it. *shrug*
 

KDude

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I seem to get a lot of lecturing for this view, but I don't forgive anyone unless they ask me. To me, it's simple. Apparently though, this is soul-destroying and eating me alive.. and I'm a bad, bad man.

I've tried to forgive as a first rule sometimes, but I regret that. If anything, that's going to eat me alive. Turn the other cheek, and all I find is another violation down the road.. someone ungrateful.
 

EJCC

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KDude

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"Forgive, but don't forget" sounds like a copout. If you're going to remember something, then do it right.
 

EJCC

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"Forgive, but don't forget" sounds like a copout. If you're going to remember something, then do it right.
So, you don't find those bad feelings to be tiring or frustrating?

Personally, I like the "forgive but don't forget" route because it means less of an emotional pain for me* -- and it makes the other person feel better too.

*Given the choice between reliving feelings of betrayal and pain every time I think of someone, and feeling absolutely nothing, I'd rather feel nothing.
 

KDude

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So, you don't find those bad feelings to be burdensome?

Personally, I like the "forgive but don't forget" route because it means less of an emotional pain for me -- and it makes the other person feel better too.

Of course, it's a burden.. but I dunno. I can't do the mental workaround to tell myself that it's somehow my fault. My responsibility to forgive... for no reason. That's an even greater burden. It's just as hard to forget those rare moments when I do try to take more initiative, and I end up looking like a fool. I just end up more pissed that way - except at myself. Might as well just start off being pissed at someone else instead. I'm cool with that.
 

OrangeAppled

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How is not forgiving a problem if you don't continue the relationship with that person? Why would you feel bad feelings when you think of them just because you did not forgive them?

Not forgiving someone is not what pains me....it's the fact that they don't feel sorry that pains me, and me forgiving them can't alter how they feel. The only reason I could not forgive anyway is lack of remorse. In which case, I just forget about them & move on because I can't control someone else. There is no baggage on my end because I did not forgive them.

I guess forgiving is more intellectual to me than emotional then. Like I said in my last post, it's a part of a deal to repair damage to a relationship.
 

EJCC

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Of course, it's a burden.. but I dunno. I can't do the mental workaround to tell myself that it's somehow my fault.
You have to do that, to forgive people? Usually I blame circumstances, or I blame things going on in the person's life. You don't have to lie to yourself to forgive someone.

But I dunno. My definition of "forgiveness" includes, for example, letting go of grudges by realizing that the person is an insufferable jerk to everyone and not just me. In other words, it's not personal. So I can still commiserate with other people about how much of a jerk that person is, and I can still talk about the wrongs they did to me, but I don't have to hold that grudge anymore. I can detach myself from it.

How is not forgiving a problem if you don't continue the relationship with that person? Why would you feel bad feelings when you think of them just because you did not forgive them?
You can be reminded of the person. Maybe Facebook stalk them, or hear about them from other people. Either way, moments when the person comes up again and you realize that you don't have closure with them are inevitable. (For example, I thought I was free of one of my grudges when we went to different colleges, but now she works at my favorite bookstore back at home. C'est la vie!)
 

KDude

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How is not forgiving a problem if you don't continue the relationship with that person? Why would you feel bad feelings when you think of them just because you did not forgive them?

Not forgiving someone is not what pains me....it's the fact that they don't feel sorry that pains me, and me forgiving them can't alter how they feel. The only reason I could not forgive anyway is lack of remorse. In which case, I just forget about them & move on because I can't control someone else. There is no baggage on my end because I did not forgive them.

I guess forgiving is more intellectual to me than emotional then. Like I said in my last post, it's a part of a deal to repair damage to a relationship.

Yeah, the best thing I can think of is just moving on and ignoring some person. But if they were brought up somehow or showed up, I'm still in the same state it was left at. I don't have it in me to be the person that's suddenly cool with them. Sometimes I'll remind them or some cases, just do something that purposely unsettles them. I can try something else, but I feel better doing it my way.

I actually have some religious ideals, but the forgiveness concept is one I suck at (whether it's Christian, or Buddhist like, that embraces whatever happens..even pain). I resent it a little bit. In my worst moments, I wonder what asshole thought it virtuous to make victims take the burden on themselves. And in my best moments, I kind of admire it... but find it hard to live up to.
 

OrangeAppled

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You have to do that, to forgive people? Usually I blame circumstances, or I blame things going on in the person's life. You don't have to lie to yourself to forgive someone.

But I dunno. My definition of "forgiveness" includes, for example, letting go of grudges by realizing that the person is an insufferable jerk to everyone and not just me. In other words, it's not personal. So I can still commiserate with other people about how much of a jerk that person is, and I can still talk about the wrongs they did to me, but I don't have to hold that grudge anymore. I can detach myself from it.

What if they aren't insufferable jerks? What if it is personal?
What's funny is, I detach myself too, but not by letting them off the hook; that would be a lie to me also. I detach by letting myself off the hook; I don't need to worry about them anymore because they're out of my life. They don't deserve my forgiveness, nor my emotional energy.

You can be reminded of the person. Maybe Facebook stalk them, or hear about them from other people. Either way, moments when the person comes up again and you realize that you don't have closure with them are inevitable. (For example, I thought I was free of one of my grudges when we went to different colleges, but now she works at my favorite bookstore back at home. C'est la vie!)

kdude said:
Yeah, the best thing I can think of is just moving on and ignoring some person. But if they were brought up somehow or showed up, I'm still in the same state it was left at. I don't have it in me to be the person that's suddenly cool with them. Sometimes I'll remind them or some cases, just do something that purposely unsettles them. I can try something else, but I feel better doing it my way.

In instances I am reminded of these people or even run into them, I don't feel an active grudge, but I am definitely not "cool" with them. I could never be friends with them again; or at least, not without an apology. This might just be semantics, but in my mind, I am no longer actively upset or cultivating bad feeling against them, but I am not open to them in a positive way either.

The best comparison I can make is grieving. If someone you love dies, at a certain point, you stop grieving. You might still miss them when you think of them from time to time, but the sharp pain is gone. You're not actively grieving them anymore.

This is how I feel about people who've wronged me seriously & given me no apology. It's like they're dead to me, and I've stopped grieving them.
 

Kriash

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I am almost too forgiving. Sometimes it is hard for me to draw a line as to where to quit haha.
I think there really aren't too many things I won't forgive for, especially if it is the first time. Obviously when people start repeating the same behaviors that I have forgiven them for in the past, I start to want to forgive them less. Even if I stop talking to someone because of what they have done- I still keep my distance, but I forgive them in my mind at least.
 
V

violaine

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I have to neutralize an issue that has bothered me in order to get over it. (It has to be something pretty big for it to bother me). I can let it go if someone apologizes or if I confront someone or with it eventually fading over time.

Most difficult situation for me is when there is no apology and I don't get to confront a person. That's happened a few times when a third party has asked me not to engage in order to spare them some drama. I'm not always able to go along with that. But I've been in some situations where I could have retaliated in a way that would ruin a person's life and sometimes it's enough for me to know that. Especially if I know that they know. That's just perfect. I really prefer to neutralize things rather than pour fuel on a fire.
 

Usehername

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But I don't have an emotional burden. This is the part I can't get across to people. I don't forgive, I don't forget. Maybe my version of forgiveness is just apathy but either way, I don't feel weighed down by it. *shrug*

Is it that their fuckup led to you seeing them as a lesser form of human life? I sometimes wonder if this is why I don't feel resentment.

If I'm angry at someone, it means I expect better from them. And I will hold that anger for as long as it takes to hold them accountable to the standards I expect in my personal circles. Then it disappears when they right their wrong or make some real effort to grow and deal with their human flaws.

If I'm apathetic it means I basically think they're incompetent at being a decent human being, or that I can't see them getting their shit together enough to do some real self-reflective analysis, which is just sad.
 
G

Ginkgo

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I don't actually understand the concept of "forgiveness" and how it is suppose to relieve you of some burden, as the forgiver, having never felt burdened to begin with. I feel offended when people tell me that I should forgive and if I don't I'm the one with the problem. They makes it sounds like *I* should take responsibility the whole thing because of an action I don't feel I need to do.

People always know when I am mad at them or I have an issue with something they have done. It's never a question of them not knowing.

Forgiveness isn't about owning up to someone else's actions. It's about owning up to your opinion of someone else's actions and ultimately figuring out why you hold that opinion. If you can't do that then your resentment will stalk you, perhaps effecting you long after the other person forgot their transgression(s). Easy solution? Be honest with yourself and others about your thoughts on others conduct. It's like a confession and a warning rolled into one. It doesn't have to take the form of vengeance, which is what people tend to associate resentment with.

If someone thinks you ought to never be mad... then... well they're not exactly being realistic to put it lightly.
 

Tamske

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I can forgive others easily. Almost always I see why things are actually my fault. I try not to speak about those feelings, as they contradict reality and I don't want to appear as a self-pitying wreck. But I actually have to think things through to be able to put fault with someone beside myself. Of course, once I've made that step, I find it hard to forgive. Then the other one has to realize spontaneously his/her fault and apologize. I don't remember I ever asked an apology.
If there are circumstances to blame, things are easier.
 

rav3n

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Depends. It's based on patterns of behaviour. There's a point where I write people off if their negative pattern continues manifesting. As for stewing over resentment, not for long if at all. A waste of time where in my opinion, damages me since it's a waste of energy that could be put to better use.
 

CrystalViolet

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Some people, I don't necessarily forgive, I just let go. I'm pretty tolerant though. Mostly I forgive, but you will be held at a distance.
 

Saslou

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I forgive after i've had time to work through my feelings and process everything. Holding a grudge against someone is so draining and not good for me. I don't think that makes me a pushover as i can see through the eyes of the other person and see their pain, their hurt and i soften. I think it's easier to forgive someone else than to forgive yourself. Meh.
 

EJCC

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But I don't have an emotional burden. This is the part I can't get across to people. I don't forgive, I don't forget. Maybe my version of forgiveness is just apathy but either way, I don't feel weighed down by it. *shrug*
That's how I am too. I guess I call it forgiveness if I stop caring, since lack of forgiveness involves an emotional burden.

Just to double-check my definitions: Google defines "forgive" as
Stop feeling angry or resentful toward (someone) for an offense, flaw, or mistake.
So yeah, I think you have been forgiving people. :yes:

And on that note:
Well I actually meant: how is it possible to remember the event without carrieing the emotional burden ? :D
Same thing! Forgiveness = letting go of the burden. Moving to the "acceptance" stage of the Five Stages of Grudge-Induced Grief.
 
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