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  1. #61
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    If you were, say, abused by a family member as a child, and never got one apology out of it.. and even when confronting them, they brushed it off or made light of it, would you still forgive them? Why? To be a martyr? To think it's your responsibility to be all the good in the world. lol.. I guess if that works, but not everyone gives a shit about being a martyr. Beats me why it's so championed. Like it's the highest ideal or something. There are other options.
    No, you'd forgive them because of this definition of forgiveness:
    to cease to feel resentment against
    But not this one:
    to grant pardon for or remission of (an offense, debt, etc.)
    (both definitions courtesy of dictionary.com)

    Like I've been saying, forgiveness by that definition isn't about using your emotional energy. It's about getting rid of your emotional energy. If you don't forgive by this definition, then you'll feel pained every time you think about the wrong done to you. But if you forgive by just not feeling angry about it anymore, but still recognizing that injustice was done, then you will be significantly happier in the long run.

    AND you won't have used a lot of energy in the process. This is something that literally everyone does, whether they know it or not -- unless every grudge you hold is infinite.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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  2. #62
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    You'd go on their word alone? If they are aware of it and making adjustments yet don't apologize....that's ok? I can't even wrap my head around that.
    On the contrary, I don't want their word. As a matter of fact if someone provides an apology at times it can just piss me off more. It takes responsibility off them and shifts it on me, whether I accept their error or not.

    I forgive when they understand, and take action to fix what they broke. At that point, an apology seems moot. I have a pretty good eye for spotting sincerity, and I can do that without words. I have known more people to offer an apology without understanding what they did wrong, and only accounting for my feelings. It is much more rare they earn my forgiveness.

    As a consequence, I don't forgive people often, and have been known to hold onto grudges as long as the person holds on to their behavior.

  3. #63
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    As a matter of fact if someone provides an apology at times it can just piss me off more.
    This confuses me, but it is something I've noticed before. Some people won't forgive without an apology, while with others, an apology just pisses them off.

    So it's essential to figure out who is which kind of person. Sometimes when I get the impression someone is angry about something, I can't tell whether to ask them about it and apologize, or let it be. With some people, if you choose the wrong one, it only pisses them off more. These things are confusing to me.

    To me, it seems best to talk about things and apologize if something went wrong, especially if it is my fault or mostly my fault, so it confuses the shit out of me to deal with people who only get more pissed off when you talk about it and apologize.



    PS - Please explain this part:

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    It takes responsibility off them and shifts it on me, whether I accept their error or not.
    How does an apology shift responsibility onto you? Or do you mean because it makes you feel pressure to forgive them?

  4. #64
    ThatGirl
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    It is not that I feel pressure to forgive. It is that the person feels simple acknowledgment is enough to compensate for their actions. That's great, you know you fucked up. I already knew that too. Now what?

    Then you look like an asshole for not accepting their apology, and really that is not fair. How does it end up being turned into YOUR issue?

    I just hate apologies. I much prefer an active reconciliation. Own what you did wrong, then fix whatever damage you caused, and learn from the experience enough to not let it repeat. Maybe it is because most of the time I don't care about your feelings, I don't care about mine, what I care about is what you fucked up.

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