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  1. #21
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    Doesn't it go forgive but don't forget? Which I take to mean stop carrying around the emotional burden but remember the event.
    But I don't have an emotional burden. This is the part I can't get across to people. I don't forgive, I don't forget. Maybe my version of forgiveness is just apathy but either way, I don't feel weighed down by it. *shrug*
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  2. #22
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I seem to get a lot of lecturing for this view, but I don't forgive anyone unless they ask me. To me, it's simple. Apparently though, this is soul-destroying and eating me alive.. and I'm a bad, bad man.

    I've tried to forgive as a first rule sometimes, but I regret that. If anything, that's going to eat me alive. Turn the other cheek, and all I find is another violation down the road.. someone ungrateful.

  3. #23
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    How is it possible to remember the event but stop carrying the emotional burden then ?
    Remember my checklist?

    That.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  4. #24
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    "Forgive, but don't forget" sounds like a copout. If you're going to remember something, then do it right.

  5. #25
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    "Forgive, but don't forget" sounds like a copout. If you're going to remember something, then do it right.
    So, you don't find those bad feelings to be tiring or frustrating?

    Personally, I like the "forgive but don't forget" route because it means less of an emotional pain for me* -- and it makes the other person feel better too.

    *Given the choice between reliving feelings of betrayal and pain every time I think of someone, and feeling absolutely nothing, I'd rather feel nothing.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  6. #26
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    So, you don't find those bad feelings to be burdensome?

    Personally, I like the "forgive but don't forget" route because it means less of an emotional pain for me -- and it makes the other person feel better too.
    Of course, it's a burden.. but I dunno. I can't do the mental workaround to tell myself that it's somehow my fault. My responsibility to forgive... for no reason. That's an even greater burden. It's just as hard to forget those rare moments when I do try to take more initiative, and I end up looking like a fool. I just end up more pissed that way - except at myself. Might as well just start off being pissed at someone else instead. I'm cool with that.

  7. #27
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    How is not forgiving a problem if you don't continue the relationship with that person? Why would you feel bad feelings when you think of them just because you did not forgive them?

    Not forgiving someone is not what pains me....it's the fact that they don't feel sorry that pains me, and me forgiving them can't alter how they feel. The only reason I could not forgive anyway is lack of remorse. In which case, I just forget about them & move on because I can't control someone else. There is no baggage on my end because I did not forgive them.

    I guess forgiving is more intellectual to me than emotional then. Like I said in my last post, it's a part of a deal to repair damage to a relationship.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  8. #28
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Of course, it's a burden.. but I dunno. I can't do the mental workaround to tell myself that it's somehow my fault.
    You have to do that, to forgive people? Usually I blame circumstances, or I blame things going on in the person's life. You don't have to lie to yourself to forgive someone.

    But I dunno. My definition of "forgiveness" includes, for example, letting go of grudges by realizing that the person is an insufferable jerk to everyone and not just me. In other words, it's not personal. So I can still commiserate with other people about how much of a jerk that person is, and I can still talk about the wrongs they did to me, but I don't have to hold that grudge anymore. I can detach myself from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    How is not forgiving a problem if you don't continue the relationship with that person? Why would you feel bad feelings when you think of them just because you did not forgive them?
    You can be reminded of the person. Maybe Facebook stalk them, or hear about them from other people. Either way, moments when the person comes up again and you realize that you don't have closure with them are inevitable. (For example, I thought I was free of one of my grudges when we went to different colleges, but now she works at my favorite bookstore back at home. C'est la vie!)
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  9. #29
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    How is not forgiving a problem if you don't continue the relationship with that person? Why would you feel bad feelings when you think of them just because you did not forgive them?

    Not forgiving someone is not what pains me....it's the fact that they don't feel sorry that pains me, and me forgiving them can't alter how they feel. The only reason I could not forgive anyway is lack of remorse. In which case, I just forget about them & move on because I can't control someone else. There is no baggage on my end because I did not forgive them.

    I guess forgiving is more intellectual to me than emotional then. Like I said in my last post, it's a part of a deal to repair damage to a relationship.
    Yeah, the best thing I can think of is just moving on and ignoring some person. But if they were brought up somehow or showed up, I'm still in the same state it was left at. I don't have it in me to be the person that's suddenly cool with them. Sometimes I'll remind them or some cases, just do something that purposely unsettles them. I can try something else, but I feel better doing it my way.

    I actually have some religious ideals, but the forgiveness concept is one I suck at (whether it's Christian, or Buddhist like, that embraces whatever happens..even pain). I resent it a little bit. In my worst moments, I wonder what asshole thought it virtuous to make victims take the burden on themselves. And in my best moments, I kind of admire it... but find it hard to live up to.

  10. #30
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    You have to do that, to forgive people? Usually I blame circumstances, or I blame things going on in the person's life. You don't have to lie to yourself to forgive someone.

    But I dunno. My definition of "forgiveness" includes, for example, letting go of grudges by realizing that the person is an insufferable jerk to everyone and not just me. In other words, it's not personal. So I can still commiserate with other people about how much of a jerk that person is, and I can still talk about the wrongs they did to me, but I don't have to hold that grudge anymore. I can detach myself from it.
    What if they aren't insufferable jerks? What if it is personal?
    What's funny is, I detach myself too, but not by letting them off the hook; that would be a lie to me also. I detach by letting myself off the hook; I don't need to worry about them anymore because they're out of my life. They don't deserve my forgiveness, nor my emotional energy.

    You can be reminded of the person. Maybe Facebook stalk them, or hear about them from other people. Either way, moments when the person comes up again and you realize that you don't have closure with them are inevitable. (For example, I thought I was free of one of my grudges when we went to different colleges, but now she works at my favorite bookstore back at home. C'est la vie!)
    Quote Originally Posted by kdude
    Yeah, the best thing I can think of is just moving on and ignoring some person. But if they were brought up somehow or showed up, I'm still in the same state it was left at. I don't have it in me to be the person that's suddenly cool with them. Sometimes I'll remind them or some cases, just do something that purposely unsettles them. I can try something else, but I feel better doing it my way.
    In instances I am reminded of these people or even run into them, I don't feel an active grudge, but I am definitely not "cool" with them. I could never be friends with them again; or at least, not without an apology. This might just be semantics, but in my mind, I am no longer actively upset or cultivating bad feeling against them, but I am not open to them in a positive way either.

    The best comparison I can make is grieving. If someone you love dies, at a certain point, you stop grieving. You might still miss them when you think of them from time to time, but the sharp pain is gone. You're not actively grieving them anymore.

    This is how I feel about people who've wronged me seriously & given me no apology. It's like they're dead to me, and I've stopped grieving them.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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