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View Poll Results: What type is the ultimate hoaxter?

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  • ENTJ

    1 7.69%
  • INTJ

    0 0%
  • INTP

    0 0%
  • ENTP

    4 30.77%
  • ENFP

    0 0%
  • INFP

    0 0%
  • INFJ

    0 0%
  • ENFJ

    0 0%
  • ESFJ

    0 0%
  • ISFJ

    0 0%
  • ISTJ

    0 0%
  • ESTJ

    2 15.38%
  • ESTP

    6 46.15%
  • ISTP

    0 0%
  • ISFP

    0 0%
  • ESFP

    0 0%
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  1. #1
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Default Ultimate hoaxer qualities?

    Per Jennifer's post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, maybe we need an "ultimate hoaxer" thread.

    I nominate:
    * ENTP
    * ESFP
    * ESTP

    as the top three "scammer types" out there.
    (At least in terms of motivation, passion, and skill.)
    I of course denounce all allegations of being involved in a hoax. More specifically,

    -The now-bankrupt business idea I was advocating wasn't a pyramid scheme, it was entirely legit multi-level marketing
    -I never promised as much profits as I did
    -the motor oil I sold you didn't work because you didn't buy enough of it
    -The weight loss pills I marketed *do* work on those who just believe in them
    -My perpetual motion machine *does* work, it does for days and days at a time
    -The anonymous hint on that sport event WAS from a reliable source
    and finally,
    -I *did* need your bank account information to process your funds.

    No really, I'm the #1 person to warn you about a hoax (like in the examples mentioned), rather than to propagate (or initiate) one. I'm skeptical enough to find the hoaxes, too. But that's just me personally. So, what type is the ultimate hoaxer?

    What common qualities might be found from those who initiate hoaxes for monetary gain?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #2
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    I'd say a perfect hoaxer must have a huge amount of functional empathy: the skills to "read" their victims, express understanding, adapt their own behaviour to it and then coldly close the deal.
    ENTP's should be excellent at this.
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    -The now-bankrupt business idea I was advocating wasn't a pyramid scheme, it was entirely legit multi-level marketing
    -I never promised as much profits as I did
    -the motor oil I sold you didn't work because you didn't buy enough of it
    -The weight loss pills I marketed *do* work on those who just believe in them
    -My perpetual motion machine *does* work, it does for days and days at a time
    -The anonymous hint on that sport event WAS from a reliable source
    and finally,
    -I *did* need your bank account information to process your funds.
    BWA HA HA!

    It's so real, it's almost... real!!!


    ... scary.

    What common qualities might be found from those who initiate hoaxes for monetary gain?
    Note they're all ExxPs.

    The ExTPs see the social/commercial system as something that can be exploited. Those who are responsible and wary won't be fooled. Those who are taken in deserve it because they were poor players. These guys are the hustlers.

    ESFPs tend to be performers more than taking advantage of people, but they still get very enthusiastic about their products. And they still often have that "If they pay for it, it's a fair trade" mentality.l Our 11-year-old took great pleasure in buying a 25 cent item at a yard sale up the street totally to sell to one his nearby best friend, for $20 (original price). The final sale price was $4 or so... but he doesn't feel at all bad about it. His overriding goal is "how do I get money, to buy the things I want for me?" and he sees those opportunities as situations to fulfill his own desires.

    I have found that ENFPs tend to be a little more sensitive and interested in the abstract relationships/maturation with/of others, so they tend to not be so crass as to rip them off. (The NF thing.) Not that they can't, it's just the hustling skill tends to be supplanted by deeper relational concerns.

    These are mostly cynical comments about the three types. I also think they honestly can believe in what they are doing, and tend to think that if someone works hard and actually tries, they TOO can do as well. We had an ESFP sell us a sunroom; it was funny to watch him do his routine; he did believe in his product, but there were so many times I specifically poked on the weak points in his presentation, then got a song-and-dance number from him. Some of his presentation was an attempt to hustle; but he also believed in what he was doing. same thing with the ESFP boss I worked for, for a year -- he thought everyone could be like him and benefit in the same way... but people not of his personality would flounder trying to be like him and following the same opportunities.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #4
    ~dangerous curves ahead~
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    I'd say a perfect hoaxer must have a huge amount of functional empathy: the skills to "read" their victims, express understanding, adapt their own behaviour to it and then coldly close the deal.
    ENTP's should be excellent at this.
    ENTPs are not that bad...

    You know how much skill it takes to create a story that someone believes in, and to take their money/time, and still have them liking you even though they know they've been fooled?

    Ai mee.... verily, we're misunderstood...

    folks call this cold... why... it takes great passion to be a craftsman of life...

  5. #5
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    I think that to really own the game, you need to be an ExTP.

    by elimination:

    ENFPs, as Jennifer says, may be too soft hearted to really go in for the kill. Plus, most ENFPs appear to lack the long term plotting skills necessary to be a hoaxer. If anything, they're more likely to be accomplices rather than the mastermind.

    ESFPs are very keen on scamming: one of my brothers is one. Like your son, Jennifer, he takes absolute pride and delight in ripping off others. But ultimately, i think perhaps because of the F, they can also be very kind and real generous givers, so it balances out. They have soft spots. The way my bro will scam everyone, but he'll let me scam him, even when he knows so.

    So yea. that leaves ExTPs. They actually enjoy such stuff. I mean, c'mon. They have ol' Machiavelli as their patron saint. I've never met an ExTP who didn't admire Machiavelli.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  6. #6
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfinchilde View Post
    So yea. that leaves ExTPs. They actually enjoy such stuff. I mean, c'mon. They have ol' Machiavelli as their patron saint. I've never met an ExTP who didn't admire Machiavelli.

    I still say ENTP over ESTP since they do not only have the ruthless empathic skills but also the brutal NT-logic that does not have to be b ased on facts...

    And ENTP's, don't be offended, as long as we're not personally involved, other NT's, not averse of Macchiavelli themselves, might even admire you for it
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  7. #7
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    Actually, mippus, i'm in concurrence with you. I was just too polite to say so.

    To cite examples: my resident ENTP once managed to trick our then 13-year-old cousin into believing that spaghetti grew on trees.

    She did it with this elaborate story of how the new spaghetti buds would come out, and when the spaghetti was of a certain length, it would be cut off: too early cutting would result in short strands, while too late a harvest would result in overlong strands. Amongst other things. She actually sold the story successfully to him. We only found out when he innocently asked one day if spaghetti was "in season".

    Aforesaid ENTP also managed to convince another kid cousin that the kid had been turned invisible by her. (ok, i'll admit, i had a hand in this, but i swear, i was only an accomplice, and i had NOTHING to do with the spaghetti story. *hand to heart* )

    Don't even ask me why an ENTP would do all this, apart from sheer enjoyment of trickery and ownership, i really can't think of any other insane reason. The scary thing is, it's their natural mode, and they actually enjoy it, near effortlessly.

    this didn't come from me. I'm just a little intp elf. I perceive i may need to go into now. (in case anyone has ever wondered why elves are quicksilver and masters of evasion, here's your answer. )
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  8. #8
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    I wanna pick two!

    ENTPs. Evil but oh so

    I'm fairly certain the younger bro of my best friend is an ENTP. Or an ESTP/ESFP.. stupid brat can fool nearly anyone -_-'' and ride on people's emotions... When a bit younger, even myself-- but then Ni would tick tock and I'd figure him out just as he'd begun laughing that I was tricked to begin with. Grrr.

    What a cute kid, though. Didn't happen enough, but just enough to be fond of him.

    Edit: On second thought, perhaps an ESFP.. he'd apologise if he seriously upset someone, never mind people he's close to and just didn't realise at the time just how 'bad' whatever he did/said actually was ("But why? Oh, really? Awww, I'm sorry." <-- and he'd mean it and make it up to you, sometimes !_!) And he has.. morals o_O haaaa and he's learned to tame himself a bit o_O

  9. #9
    ~dangerous curves ahead~
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    Craft. A good story is a craft.

    Actually, you missed out the part about how in autumn, Italian women would harvest them in armfuls, and once their aprons were full, they'd pack them into little bags for sale. That is how they arrive on our shores. And that is why when he eats a spaghetti noodle, he should not waste it as it took a lot of painstaking work. Always remember the woman behind each noodle he's slurping.

    And hey. That cousin loves me even today.

    We're not brutal. We really mean no harm. The purpose is the story itself, there was never an intent to trick the person. You see the line?

  10. #10
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    ^ Bite me!

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