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  1. #1
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    Default Culturally accepted child abuse

    I have been thinking about this for a few years.
    I know some-one who was sexually abused by their farther as a adolescent and it has left them with all sorts of issues, and there’s no deigning its WRONG…………But;

    I read a book a few years ago about ancient Egypt (Fiction), and it was saying that people of high status often had young boys they would keep in their house and sleep with. The lead character was also being abused by her farther, but there was no stigma attached to this. She was fine with it as it was part and parcel of her normal life and accepted to be the norm by all around her.
    A few years back in this country it was normal to take 5yr olds to work down the mine, or to give them 6 weeks of school and force them to help with the harvest.
    In fact there’s lots of things that are now considered abuse which where perfectly normal a few years ago.

    I’m probably not explaining very well, but basically is abuse still abuse if it’s accepted as the normal way of things by society as a whole? Is it the stigma attached to it that makes it so damaging?

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    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Morals are usually defined by what causes outrage in people. If enough people object it becomes "morally" wrong.

    Consider the parallel of fashion. What is fashion? It kind of boils down to some rich twit designing something unmanageable and then persuading some well known twit to wear it. The sheep simply follow suit.

    There is another manner in which morals progress of course, careful consideration. After all whipping used to be acceptable as did slavery but people considered it at length and reasoned that it wasn't really what they wanted to do to others and hence they would stop. They campaign for others to stop and hence it becomes part of the social norm, the universally accepted set of morals.

    Personally I think it's immoral that if your dog attacks someone the dog may get put down but all you face is a slap on the wrists. However until the sheep agree it's just my own personal moral set.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    their seems to be a technical problem quoting the OP.

    However: what disturbs me is that -in this theoretical issue- you don't seem to make a distinction between child labour and incest...
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

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    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooky View Post
    I have been thinking about this for a few years.
    I know some-one who was sexually abused by their farther as a adolescent and it has left them with all sorts of issues, and there’s no deigning its WRONG…………But;
    Why?? I hate these discussions because out of all the things that are wrong with this world, I am extremely bothered by child abuse of ANY kind. It really gets my blood boiling!

    A few years back in this country it was normal to take 5yr olds to work down the mine, or to give them 6 weeks of school and force them to help with the harvest.
    In fact there’s lots of things that are now considered abuse which where perfectly normal a few years ago.
    What's a "few" years to you? I consider that 2-5 years ago and I'm not aware of any English children working in mines back in 2003.

    I’m probably not explaining very well, but basically is abuse still abuse if it’s accepted as the normal way of things by society as a whole? Is it the stigma attached to it that makes it so damaging?
    There are a lot of fucked up things that go on in this world and just because these things you've mentioned happened hundreds of years ago doesn't make them alright with me. Really, it just does not compute.

    Just out of curiosity why did you read this book?
    Time is a delicate mistress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Morals are usually defined by what causes outrage in people. If enough people object it becomes "morally" wrong.
    Hi.
    Right, so basically our saying that all the 5yr olds put to work down the mines, grew up and decided that they REALLY didn't like that, and that they wouldn't be doing it to their children..........eventually they increased in numbers enough to make the moral perspective change on the issue and is was then seen ad immoral and abusive?


    So in affect it was still abuse, just not recognized as such.

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    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooky View Post
    Hi.
    Right, so basically our saying that all the 5yr olds put to work down the mines, grew up and decided that they REALLY didn't like that, and that they wouldn't be doing it to their children..........eventually they increased in numbers enough to make the moral perspective change on the issue and is was then seen ad immoral and abusive?


    So in affect it was still abuse, just not recognized as such.
    OR It's still not abuse, it's just now labelled as such.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    Why?? I hate these discussions because out of all the things that are wrong with this world, I am extremely bothered by child abuse of ANY kind. It really gets my blood boiling!

    What's a "few" years to you? I consider that 2-5 years ago and I'm not aware of any English children working in mines back in 2003.

    There are a lot of fucked up things that go on in this world and just because these things you've mentioned happened hundreds of years ago doesn't make them alright with me. Really, it just does not compute.

    Just out of curiosity why did you read this book?
    II’m with you Jen, it really annoys me to, but this isn’t really about abuse.
    It just that wonder if it is the social stigma that stops my friend getting over this. If when she told people what had happened to her they didn't look at her differently and treat her differently then she wouldn't feel she was different because of it.
    I thought I would ask for thoughts from the very intelligent people on this site and that maybe they could help further my thoughts on this matter.

    As for a few years.........working in the fields my Mum and Dad did, but mines yr probably going back a 100 years

    The book was actually a very engaging story about accent Egypt, and the pharaoh, not about child abuse.
    I refuse to read any of the rash of books about there things, it seams like everyone has a sordid story to cash in on and I find it distasteful and upsetting that these things happen; with out reading about it, and to be honest I don’t see why anybody would want to. But I feel the same about horror films to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    OR It's still not abuse, it's just now labelled as such.
    You just like playing Devils Advocate

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    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooky View Post
    You just like playing Devils Advocate
    Not necessarily. The case that you are on about in particular, yes I am being perhaps too irreverent but in general there are many things which are relabelled as dangerous that were once routine and basically it's because it was decided that the line should be moved back.

    Take for example, fireworks. They used to be more powerful, more dangerous and yet anyone could go and buy them. Now you can only buy the weak ones at certain times of the year, once over a certain age and even then you're not allowed too many. Okay it needed some controls but is all that really necessary?
    "Why of course," say the sheep, "fireworks are really really dangerous explosives!!!"
    "Since when?" says I.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Not necessarily. The case that you are on about in particular, yes I am being perhaps too irreverent but in general there are many things which are relabelled as dangerous that were once routine and basically it's because it was decided that the line should be moved back.

    Take for example, fireworks. They used to be more powerful, more dangerous and yet anyone could go and buy them. Now you can only buy the weak ones at certain times of the year, once over a certain age and even then you're not allowed too many. Okay it needed some controls but is all that really necessary?
    "Why of course," say the sheep, "fireworks are really really dangerous explosives!!!"
    "Since when?" says I.
    I reformulate what I said before: "are you really comparing fireworks to incest?"
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

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