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  1. #51
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    It seems that the defining point of what is abuse and what is punishment is whether or not it is an agreed and acceptable punitive measure for the act which drew the punishment.

    In cases of abuse it's obvious that it's wrong in any culture usually by the measure that the victim didn't do anything to draw the punishing act.

    What is odd, incomprehensible to many, is when a culture allows an individual to measure what needs punishment and what does not. From an outsiders perspective it seems barbaric that an individual can decide what is a punishable act and then on the strength of their convictions meet out justice as they see fit (a precise example escapes me at present). To us it's abuse but to them it's the law of the land and acceptable as part of their culture. Perhaps to them we may seem to ignore justice and await the decision of a bureaucratic machine to decide the offenders fate.

    Never the less abuse exists in all cultures both as a possibility and a reality. The question remains as to whether those not involved in the incident help or hinder by their reactions to it.

    Now I can see how everyone exclaiming about the terror of it that they are increasing the message of "don't do it" but are we not also giving all those involved in it, including the victim and their family, a black mark? Are the abused partially stained by our combined reaction to the abuser and hence take on guilt about being involved in something so terrible?

    Personally I think so.

    The solution, however, would be much harder than the initial problem as if you remove the outrage does it then become easier?

    Again, personally I think that it should be dealt with like an axe blow. Swift, sudden and efficiently. Remove the offender from the situation and leave the scene with the offender never to return. If only it were that simple.

    Also what nags on my mind is that no matter what we do there will always be cases where someone gets tarred with the brush of "abuser" who doesn't really deserve it. In these cases the whole moral outrage does us no service.

    Perhaps we should restrain ourselves from our natural witch-hunter instincts and let the law take it's course. Surely by whipping ourselves in to a frenzy, even when we are perhaps right to do so, only leads to more barbarism? For what is persecution of the innocent to ensure that the guilty are punished but a route to a more barbaric society?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #52
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    I didn't entirely read through this just kind of skimmed, but as far as "barbaric childhoods" and how things could be right at one time and wrong at another is really complicated and I've dwelled on it myself for awhile. I honestly feel though that the topic has been derailed from a little after the original post. I think the main concept here is that, is a taboo a concept of society and would something not be a taboo if the society there wasn't defining it as such.

    Err.. imagine if being forced to do schoolwork you didn't want to do was a taboo. (wish it was) Anyway, say this happened 10 years from now. Everyones all happy of course but now they think something else is difficult or annoying but isn't a taboo yet. But now they've been raised into a society where doing work you don't want to do is pathetic and disgusting. When they see pictures of people working on things they don't want to do they have been preprogrammed to be disgusted with it. (just like current taboos) But right now, school and other work that we really don't want to do is considered perfectly normal and necessary even.

    Err.. it's 3 AM and I've been up for almost 20 hours now I'm tired so I can't really continue and I can't really check my thoughts atm either. Sorry if this was out of taste, but I also disagree with the way this thread went. I don't think this topic was made to discuss the rational thinking behind abuse, just the meta-discussion of the taboo itself. Make any sense?

    But anywho, can someone teleport me to this world without schoolwork please? I'd love it.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by MachineDog View Post
    I didn't entirely read through this just kind of skimmed, but as far as "barbaric childhoods" and how things could be right at one time and wrong at another is really complicated and I've dwelled on it myself for awhile. I honestly feel though that the topic has been derailed from a little after the original post. I think the main concept here is that, is a taboo a concept of society and would something not be a taboo if the society there wasn't defining it as such.

    Err.. imagine if being forced to do schoolwork you didn't want to do was a taboo. (wish it was) Anyway, say this happened 10 years from now. Everyones all happy of course but now they think something else is difficult or annoying but isn't a taboo yet. But now they've been raised into a society where doing work you don't want to do is pathetic and disgusting. When they see pictures of people working on things they don't want to do they have been preprogrammed to be disgusted with it. (just like current taboos) But right now, school and other work that we really don't want to do is considered perfectly normal and necessary even.

    Err.. it's 3 AM and I've been up for almost 20 hours now I'm tired so I can't really continue and I can't really check my thoughts atm either. Sorry if this was out of taste, but I also disagree with the way this thread went. I don't think this topic was made to discuss the rational thinking behind abuse, just the meta-discussion of the taboo itself. Make any sense?

    But anywho, can someone teleport me to this world without schoolwork please? I'd love it.
    Um, that's already happening... the teens I raised and their friends thought making them take the garbage out was child abuse... they were just slaves ya know... and I'm not joking.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    However: what disturbs me is that -in this theoretical issue- you don't seem to make a distinction between child labour and incest...
    Yeah, I once said something similar while in conversation with some people at work and they were stunned... they didn't (want to) get it, I didn't get them.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    Um, that's already happening... the teens I raised and their friends thought making them take the garbage out was child abuse... they were just slaves ya know... and I'm not joking.
    Yup.

    Sorry for the one-liner but nothing else to add here.

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