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  1. #11
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Morals are usually defined by what causes outrage in people. If enough people object it becomes "morally" wrong.

    Consider the parallel of fashion. What is fashion? It kind of boils down to some rich twit designing something unmanageable and then persuading some well known twit to wear it. The sheep simply follow suit.

    There is another manner in which morals progress of course, careful consideration. After all whipping used to be acceptable as did slavery but people considered it at length and reasoned that it wasn't really what they wanted to do to others and hence they would stop. They campaign for others to stop and hence it becomes part of the social norm, the universally accepted set of morals.

    Personally I think it's immoral that if your dog attacks someone the dog may get put down but all you face is a slap on the wrists. However until the sheep agree it's just my own personal moral set.
    What is the precondition of abuse?

  2. #12
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooky View Post
    II’m with you Jen, it really annoys me to, but this isn’t really about abuse.
    It just that wonder if it is the social stigma that stops my friend getting over this. If when she told people what had happened to her they didn't look at her differently and treat her differently then she wouldn't feel she was different because of it.
    I thought I would ask for thoughts from the very intelligent people on this site and that maybe they could help further my thoughts on this matter.

    As for a few years.........working in the fields my Mum and Dad did, but mines yr probably going back a 100 years

    The book was actually a very engaging story about accent Egypt, and the pharaoh, not about child abuse.
    I refuse to read any of the rash of books about there things, it seams like everyone has a sordid story to cash in on and I find it distasteful and upsetting that these things happen; with out reading about it, and to be honest I don’t see why anybody would want to. But I feel the same about horror films to.
    I understand. I was going to add that but had to get breakfast started.

    I can't imagine being a woman 200 years ago let alone thousands of years ago! There are also time where I remind our children that 100 years ago children were to be seen and not heard. Of course they just look at me like I'm crazy.

    Times do change. Can you imagine Caligula living today? I guess he'd be one of those nutty pervs that we keep our distance from.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  3. #13
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    I reformulate what I said before: "are you really comparing fireworks to incest?"
    Do you think me that irreverent?

    Both are responded to with an emotional reaction, one is victimisation and the other accident but some of the same responses are used.

    I would never say it's a precise parallel but it illustrates the facet which I was referring to.

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    What is the precondition of abuse?
    Submission?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #14
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Do you think me that irreverent?
    ... such a dangerous question... :rolli:
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  5. #15
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    I reformulate what I said before: "are you really comparing fireworks to incest?"







    Did this all get framed correctly? I am seeing the question lurking around the edges to be, "Is [what is labeled as abuse, such as strenuous child labor or sexual activity with children] considered wrong because it offends society's sensibilities, or is it wrong because there's something actually detrimental about it?"

    So maybe it's just time to start making a long list of results, and you'll see how it adds up.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #16
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    ... such a dangerous question... :rolli:
    Danger is my middle name... oh no wait it's John.. Damn! :steam:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Why isn't there a bag of crisps smiley? (Chips to you ex-empire navvies)
    I don't like popcorn
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Did this all get framed correctly? I am seeing the question lurking around the edges to be, "Is [what is labeled as abuse, such as strenuous child labor or sexual activity with children] considered wrong because it offends society's sensibilities, or is it wrong because there's something actually detrimental about it?"

    So maybe it's just time to start making a long list of results, and you'll see how it adds up.


    Logical... it must be LOGICAL!!
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post


    Did this all get framed correctly? I am seeing the question lurking around the edges to be, "Is [what is labeled as abuse, such as strenuous child labor or sexual activity with children] considered wrong because it offends society's sensibilities, or is it wrong because there's something actually detrimental about it?"

    So maybe it's just time to start making a long list of results, and you'll see how it adds up.

    Thats not really what I was asking, I belive these things to be Wrong. I dont see how they could not be considered wrong.

    What Xander managed to answer really quite well was how could it be right at a point in time or some cultures but be wrong now.

    but my main question is "are we by putting such a stigma to abuse, causing more pain to the people we are trying to protect?"

  8. #18
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Do I get this right: the question being on the pro's and con's of taboos?
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    Do I get this right: the question being on the pro's and con's of taboos?
    Yes; I suposse you could put it that way, sure.

  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooky View Post
    ....but my main question is "are we by putting such a stigma to abuse, causing more pain to the people we are trying to protect?"
    Ah, okay -- thanks so much for clarifying.

    I don't know if this is connected, but I ran across this "rape" t-shirt the other day, with an opened safe on it and inside are the tiny words "I was raped."

    Some people thought this was a good idea, allowing victims of rape to feel like they could speak up and stop keeping such a dreadful secret. Others thought it just contributed to the social stigma of rape.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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