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  1. #1
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Default Weak Cognitive Functions - Don't we all use most functions, at least a little bit?

    OK, so cognitive function theory ranks the order in which each personality type develops each of the 8 cognitive functions.

    I can only remember my first 4. As an ENTP, mine are: Ne, Ti, Fe, Si.

    I can agree definitely with the first 2, maybe the first 3. However, despite not being an expert, I'm going to go out on a limb and call bullshit on the theoretical development order for the rest of the functions.

    Examples

    For example, aren't most of us forced to develop Te in order to function in an office environment? I'm pretty sure my Te is more developed than my Si because of this. I get Te Exhaustion sometimes, but other times, I actually like using my Te. For example, I like finding efficient ways to do things. I find anal-retentive measures for supposed minor improvements to be really annoying (like bosses that get mad if you're 10 min late), but I love finding aggressive ways to improve efficiency, like systemic improvements that reduce potential for error and reduce iterations. I also like to put a lot of time into the first iteration, in order to reduce the need for subsequent iterations. It seems to work well because I sometimes feel like I'm taking way too long, yet overall I seem to work a lot more efficiently than most, with fewer iterations.

    Also, I feel like I have a lot more Se than my INTJ husband. Theoretically, INTJs are supposed to have more Se than ENTPs, and I'm going to call complete bullshit on that, too. From what I've seen, ENTPs seem to have waaaaay more Se than INTJs.

    I also find I've made a few major decisions in my life that seem very Fi in nature, while it is very clear to me that my Ti is like second-nature, so while I definitely prefer Ti over Fi, I do think I use Fi sometimes.

    I can go on and on about why I think the theory for the development of cog functions beyond the first 2 or 3 is BS, but I'd be interested in your thoughts.

    Functions - "Use" or "Prefer"? What's the Difference?

    Oh yeah, and another related topic for discussion. In another thread awhile ago, I mentioned "using" certain functions, and someone said you don't "use" functions, you "prefer" them. I don't understand that, it doesn't make sense to me.

    What do the rest of you think?

  2. #2
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    The short answer to your question: Yes, we use all functions. Our preference is what functions we tend to use the most often, or favor. It's like which tool you're going to use the most often to solve a problem or approach things in life.

    Even as an INFJ with inferior Se, I still use Se to some degree, and I am observant of things in the environment that involve a pattern of behavior or a general trend. Usually said observations are tied into a theoretical concept though. Likewise, in some situations, I may make decisions based off of Fi and Te, rather than Fe and Ti. Even though my general social interactions with others may seem more Ni-Fe-Ti oriented, other things such as organizing a closet and grading papers are more of a Te based process. Fi tends to manifest itself more often when I am making a decision that best suits my own inner value system, such as deciding to wear the clothes I want and listening to the music I want, and also when I go through an independent streak when someone tells me to do something that I feel goes against what I believe is the right thing to do.

    So basically, in a nutshell, we use functions we have weak preference for on a day to day basis. Our type is determined by which functions we have a preference for, or use the most often.

    Hopefully this answers your question.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    @CuriousFeeling, so you agree that beyond the first 2 or 3 functions, we don't develop them in the theoretical order associated with our type?

    (I'll be out this afternoon, but will research and explain further what I meant later if it helps.)

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    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    @CuriousFeeling, so you agree that beyond the first 2 or 3 functions, we don't develop them in the theoretical order associated with our type?

    (I'll be out this afternoon, but will research and explain further what I meant later if it helps.)
    If you're implying our fourth and other consecutive strongest functions, then yes it doesn't necessarily develop in theoretical order associated with our type. The fourth function you notice in theoretical functional preferences is actually the inferior or weakest developed function. For instance with me as an INFJ with a theoretical Ni>Fe>Ti>Se functional order preference, the Se is the weakest/last developed function. The other cognitive functions in between Ti and Se may vary from time to time. These are the shadow processes. Shadow functions can vary on strength based on the situation at hand. They usually come out the most often when a type is under stress and the tertiary isn't being effective to manage stress.

    Does this clarify things?
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  5. #5
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Yep, we all use all 4 functions, not 8, thats a misconception from jungs work. jung said that everyone uses all functions, but he didnt see Ti and Te as two different functions, but just T function that can be oriented introverted(abstracting) or extraverted(emphatizing). so if you think Ti and Te as different functions, then no we dont use all 8 functions.

    Anyways when it comes to developing functions, its not that we dont use undeveloped functions, its just that we use undeveloped functions unconsciously and we dont have conscious control over them. jung called this development of functions differentation:



    also the confusion of 8 function comes partly from unconscious function linking itself to function with different orientation. for example undifferentiated Fe might feel like Fi if its linked to Ti or Si, thats simply because you dont become aware of the F extraverting and only feel the Fe through introverted functions.
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  6. #6
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    My opinion but where a function resides, doesn't necessarily equate to strong or weak. More how skillfully you wield the function, as it manifests in our behaviour or lack of.

  7. #7
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    If you're implying our fourth and other consecutive strongest functions, then yes it doesn't necessarily develop in theoretical order associated with our type. The fourth function you notice in theoretical functional preferences is actually the inferior or weakest developed function. For instance with me as an INFJ with a theoretical Ni>Fe>Ti>Se functional order preference, the Se is the weakest/last developed function. The other cognitive functions in between Ti and Se may vary from time to time. These are the shadow processes. Shadow functions can vary on strength based on the situation at hand. They usually come out the most often when a type is under stress and the tertiary isn't being effective to manage stress.

    Does this clarify things?
    Somewhat, thanks! So you're saying that all 5 remaining functions (after your top 3) are shadow functions?

    Or are you saying something more like what INTP wrote below?


    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Yep, we all use all 4 functions, not 8, thats a misconception from jungs work. jung said that everyone uses all functions, but he didnt see Ti and Te as two different functions, but just T function that can be oriented introverted(abstracting) or extraverted(emphatizing). so if you think Ti and Te as different functions, then no we dont use all 8 functions.

    Anyways when it comes to developing functions, its not that we dont use undeveloped functions, its just that we use undeveloped functions unconsciously and we dont have conscious control over them. jung called this development of functions differentation:



    also the confusion of 8 function comes partly from unconscious function linking itself to function with different orientation. for example undifferentiated Fe might feel like Fi if its linked to Ti or Si, thats simply because you dont become aware of the F extraverting and only feel the Fe through introverted functions.
    OK, so are you saying that as an ENTP I use Ne, Ti, Fe, and Si consciously? And I use Ni, Te, Fi, and Se subconsciously and linked to one of my first four functions?

    Is there any particular logic to which of my differentiated functions the undifferentiated ones would normally be linked to?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    My opinion but where a function resides, doesn't necessarily equate to strong or weak. More how skillfully you wield the function, as it manifests in our behaviour or lack of.
    So you're saying that even though my Te is way down on the my (theoretical ENTP) list, it's still possible to wield it skillfully?

  8. #8
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    So you're saying that even though my Te is way down on the my (theoretical ENTP) list, it's still possible to wield it skillfully?
    Consider how "skill" is acquired. It's a combination of practice and natural aptitude. If you consider function stacking, your primary functions are the four you have a preference for and in my opinion, have varying degrees of aptitude towards where it's a downwards sliding scale, the further down the function order you go. Your shadow functions would be functions that you don't have an aptitude for but can use consciously and with practice. When they manifest unconsciously, they're going to manifest in the negative.

    But this doesn't change my original premise of wielded skill level, rather than looking at it from the perspective of strength. As an example, Fi is my inferior function. When it manifests, it's crazy strong and is very difficult to control, hence it's still a "strong" function but I don't have the skill to wield it the same way a Fi-dom or aux would.

  9. #9
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Somewhat, thanks! So you're saying that all 5 remaining functions (after your top 3) are shadow functions?

    Or are you saying something more like what INTP wrote below?
    Yes, they are shadow functions, and what INTP wrote further explains that they are used unconsciously.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post



    OK, so are you saying that as an ENTP I use Ne, Ti, Fe, and Si consciously? And I use Ni, Te, Fi, and Se subconsciously and linked to one of my first four functions?

    Is there any particular logic to which of my differentiated functions the undifferentiated ones would normally be linked to?
    You use 4 functions, N T F S. N is oriented extraverted, T is oriented introverted, F is oriented extraverted and S is oriented introverted. orientation of these functions doesent change, so you dont use Ni Te Fi Se.

    Neither can you use all of these functions consciously, unless you differentiate all of them, but i kinda doubt its possible to fully differentiate all functions.

    To which of the functions the(for example) undifferianted Fe links to depends on what other function you use the same time.

    extraversion means pretty much applying whats inside tosomething outside(directed towards external world). introversion is basically taking whats outside and taking out what you think is irrelevant, this way creating an subjective view to it. (do note that the adding or taking out parts are always unconscious and its the end product of these that can come conscious)

    now if we look at the 4 functions;
    S = what is
    N = where did it come from and where is it(or might be) going
    T = what is it that is
    F = what is it worth

    now whwn it comes to introversion(abstraction/removing) and extraversion(empathy/adding), its the function that determines sort of like what principle to use for adding. you could think it as T=principle of logic, F=principle of value, S=principle of fact and N=principle of possibility.

    Now with undifferentiated F for example, you would add worth to things and not be aware that the value judgment of something in external world came from within and is onl





    Fuck this shit i hate writing on phone with this idiot dolphin browser, cant get the text in right place


    y subjective(even tho you might rationalize it to be logical) and may not be the actual value of it once you understand it better. also this sort of unconscious value judgents that you placed onto external world might have an effect on your Ti. you could think it as sort of unconscious attention focus for your Ti. You just feel(or get unconscious urge) that this is what you need to analyze and you end up analyzing something that your unconscious told you to. A
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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