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  1. #11
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    I'm learning it... I don't know if I'll ever be in the league with those who you've mentioned, but dammit finding the center ground will be enough if I could keep it.

  2. #12
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    C'mon, the State of California has a Commission for Self Esteem.

    However Self Esteem is what others think of you, while self respect is what you think of yourself.

    So Self Esteem is a form of social control, while self respect gives us our dignity.
    It can be used as an avenue of social control, but I don't think caring about what others think of you is a social construct.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yeah my self-respect is inside me and comes from proving to myself I can be brave or overcome things, which is what I like about Keirsey.
    What do you mean by that?

  4. #14

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    Isn't self esteem related to your self ideal and self concept? You have a self ideal (your ideal self) and a self concept (how you see yourself) and self esteem is related to how well you achieve or achieving your ideal. So a low self ideal could result in an inflated self esteem. Or an unrealistic high self ideal could result in low self esteem.

    The whole idea of self esteem seems pretty useless in comparison to self ideal and self concept as markers of where you are.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    What do you mean by that?
    I like Keirsey's matrices of things like motives for Self-Esteem and Self-Respect for the temperaments.

  6. #16
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I like Keirsey's matrices of things like motives for Self-Esteem and Self-Respect for the temperaments.
    I agree. Those are really good.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  7. #17
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    There's probably a good middle road.. I admire someone's attitude like that as well, but it can be overdone in some. Oblivious and annoying even. Think of the character Pepe LePeu. You can't say he's admirable. =D

  8. #18
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I like Keirsey's matrices of things like motives for Self-Esteem and Self-Respect for the temperaments.
    I seem to recall those... Do you have a link?

  9. #19
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Smile Our Inner World

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    It can be used as an avenue of social control, but I don't think caring about what others think of you is a social construct.
    Yes, I care what others think of me. I care about what people think of me just as I walk down the street. I even care what cats and dogs think of me, not to mention what you think of me.

    On the other hand, I enjoy my inner self. And I am learning to enjoy my inner self in the world. However many must focus on the outer world, for work or study or recreation. And when I try to share my inner world with them, I find I am a nuisance.

    In fact I would say, for those focused on success in the outer world, at best I am seen as in the way.

    So it seems to be successful in the outer world, most of us need to suppress, deny and mutilate our inner self.

    In a literate, authoritarian world, with our central nervous system on the inside, the hatred of the inner self is price for admission.

    But the electronic world places our central nervous system on the outside, for everyone to feel. And the price of admission to the electronic world is loving and sharing our inner life.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I seem to recall those... Do you have a link?
    They're in Please Understand Me II, in their entirety, in each temperament section.

    Some are posted on places like Personality Cafe, though in shortened version (doesn't include syntax, et al). I can PM you with a link.

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