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what is the psychology of conservatives and liberals?

CrystalViolet

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If they are starving of impoverished, trhey are responsible of themselves. Not slaves. Poverty is not more enslavement than illness or old age. You are not a slave as long as you are free to try anything you want to solve your problem, no matter if your trials are successful of you actually have opportunities. The fact, though, is that laissez-faire capitalism multiply the opportunities to improve your wealth.
It takes money to make money. If you cannot pay for raw materials, you cannot make products. If you can not afford public transport, you might not arrive at the job interview on the other side of the city on time.
If you do not have a permanent address, that is a significant hurdle, for getting a job. And, well you need a job to have a permanent residence. These things compound on each other. That's why they call it a property trap. It isn't about not trying hard enough. There are significant hurdles to over come, and problems compound on themselves.I'm looking at this on a very simple level. One needs a little financial support at the very least to get out of the trap.
 

Speed Gavroche

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It takes money to make money. If you cannot pay for raw materials, you cannot make products. If you can not afford public transport, you might not arrive at the job interview on the other side of the city on time.
If you do not have a permanent address, that is a significant hurdle, for getting a job. And, well you need a job to have a permanent residence. These things compound on each other. That's why they call it a property trap. It isn't about not trying hard enough. There are significant hurdles to over come, and problems compound on themselves.I'm looking at this on a very simple level. One needs a little financial support at the very least to get out of the trap.

Nobody said that being homeless was easy. But welfare state have never lust again this ohenomenon, it amplifies it. In a laissez-faire economy, there's less homeless people and it's more easy for an homeless person to find a job. Assistantship is not the answer, it's the problem.
 

FDG

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It takes money to make money. If you cannot pay for raw materials, you cannot make products. If you can not afford public transport, you might not arrive at the job interview on the other side of the city on time.
If you do not have a permanent address, that is a significant hurdle, for getting a job. And, well you need a job to have a permanent residence. These things compound on each other. That's why they call it a property trap. It isn't about not trying hard enough. There are significant hurdles to over come, and problems compound on themselves.I'm looking at this on a very simple level. One needs a little financial support at the very least to get out of the trap.

Well yeah but nothing in the world says that people truly deserve it. I mean, there is virtually no reason why someone who is born poor should be treated "better" just because his parents were unable to think about the future. My grandfathers and grandmothers were shitty at planning ahead and my dad and mom were only a bit better, so I don't have a large amount of assets to support myself, so - for example - when I want to move I need to take into account the possibility that I will end up homeless if I don't have a job. What do other people have to do with it? I would never want the govt to tax a rich guy just because whoever has given birth to my parents and me was shitty at handling money.
 

entropie

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Well yeah but nothing in the world says that people truly deserve it. I mean, there is virtually no reason why someone who is born poor should be treated "better" just because his parents were unable to think about the future. My grandfathers and grandmothers were shitty at planning ahead and my dad and mom were only a bit better, so I don't have a large amount of assets to support myself, so - for example - when I want to move I need to take into account the possibility that I will end up homeless if I don't have a job. What do other people have to do with it? I would never want the govt to tax a rich guy just because whoever has given birth to my parents and me was shitty at handling money.

Someone tho who had from the start a harder time, needs a little support tho to have similiar possibilities like others. The problem isnt solved by taxing the rich, its the income gap thats killing us. I for example do the drawings for a construction and someone in production builds them. If something goes wrong the constructor and the produce will be hold accountable, cause both could have seen the mistake. I tho earn nearly 200 % more than the guy in production. That makes no sense. it would be ok that I earn more if the availiability of people doing construction work was lower, but since this availiability has become very low, the incomes are peaked to insane amounts. This effect influences the whole economic system and draws a huge gap between the rich and the poor. its not good cause one day the poor come and demand your head on a silver plate.
 

Eric B

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Communism =/= Fascism

yes it does. a communist society has a dictator who controls and distributes resources.
Actually, if you may remember Political Compass and Politopia, it's a 2D scale, of both left and right, and authoritarian and libertarian. Communism and Fascism are both extremely authoritarian. Yet they are also considered on opposite ends of the left/right spectrum. They seem similar because of the authoritarianism.
 

CrystalViolet

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Nobody said that being homeless was easy. But welfare state have never lust again this ohenomenon, it amplifies it. In a laissez-faire economy, there's less homeless people and it's more easy for an homeless person to find a job. Assistantship is not the answer, it's the problem.
Most who end up on the streets and stay there, are suffering from mental health issues. Those who struggle to pull themselves from desperate poverty, often stay there from poor education opportunities, low self esteem (which gets introdoctrinated, by the way), as well as the problems I talked about in my last post. Add drugs and drink to the mix and Some people get condemned to life of hell, simply because they are born.
 

Hazashin

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Actually, if you may remember Political Compass and Politopia, it's a 2D scale, of both left and right, and authoritarian and libertarian. Communism and Fascism are both extremely authoritarian. Yet they are also considered on opposite ends of the left/right spectrum. They seem similar because of the authoritarianism.

Exactly.

Not really, there have been such movements before, most famously the Conservative Revolution movement in Weimar Germany. However, contra to Hazashin's claim they didn't get along very well with the Nazis, and many became involved in the resistance and the July Bomb Plot.

What claim do you speak of?
 

Mole

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And what exactly are liberal goals, if I may ask?

The modest goal of liberal democracy is the limitation of power, for power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
 
S

Sniffles

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The modest goal of liberal democracy is the limitation of power, for power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
That certainly is the self-serving myth of liberal democracy.
 

Mole

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The Mytho-Poetic

That certainly is the self-serving myth of liberal democracy.

We all live for the mytho-poetic.

Liberal democracy lives for the mytho-poetic limitation of power.

And Peguy lives for the mytho-poetic Christ.

But what mytho-poetry does Victor live for?
 

Usurper

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Well NTs more often than not seem to be secular humanists and have a more cosmopolitan and materialist worldview.

Also the person who said that in communism a dictator/the state distributes the wealth and owns the means of production is very wrong, in communism the means of production are owned by working people. Capitalist America was much closer to communism than the USSR (which was rather a step backward to despotism masking itself as communist).
 

Hazashin

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Well NTs more often than not seem to be secular humanists and have a more cosmopolitan and materialist worldview.

Also the person who said that in communism a dictator/the state distributes the wealth and owns the means of production is very wrong, in communism the means of production are owned by working people. Capitalist America was much closer to communism than the USSR (which was rather a step backward to despotism masking itself as communist).

+1
 

entropie

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NTs have anything else but a materialist worldview. we have a rational worldview as opposed to materialism that finds its luck in the worth of materials.

Nts are the opposite of cosmopolitan and we are no secular humanists, we just dont concentrate on human things most of the time but on the nature of the world we live in, which of course includes humans.

I dont know what your sources are but they are completly wrong and imprecise
 

Speed Gavroche

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The modest goal of liberal democracy is the limitation of power, for power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

If liberals really want to limit power, why the weight of the state increases systematically each time they get the power? Especially Obama, do you really think he limited the state's power?
 

Speed Gavroche

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Also the person who said that in communism a dictator/the state distributes the wealth and owns the means of production is very wrong, in communism the means of production are owned by working people.

In communism, the production is not directed by working people but by the dictator: it is despotism.
 

Viridian

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NTs have anything else but a materialist worldview. we have a rational worldview as opposed to materialism that finds its luck in the worth of materials.

Perhaps they meant metaphysical materialism?
 

Mole

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Your Constitution limits power, not your President

If liberals really want to limit power, why the weight of the state increases systematically each time they get the power? Especially Obama, do you really think he limited the state's power?

It is not in your President's gift to limit power, rather it is in the gift of your Constitution.
 
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