Se wants to develop Ne

[OrangeAppled]

But I think this one needs some explaining. It’s a really good metaphor for describing the perspective in general, but it’s very difficult as an exercise because it is asking of how to escape all of reality. Instead, one could start with a very specific part of reality of which to brainstorm escaping, and build from there. Like, “Can we wear time pieces on other places than our wrists?” “Why do cars have to move upon wheels?” and “Why aren’t we allowed to press that big red button?” (I suggest not getting any real red buttons involved. If the exercise goes well, buttons will be pressed )

Yes, I see what you mean. I think "cage" might have the wrong connotations if taken too literally. It's the idea of reality being restricting in a sense, and trying to move beyond what is accepted as the way to do things or look at things.

 

[Paz]

I'm not sure how much you'll be able to relate to this, so let me know if I need to provide another example, but if you're able to draw distinct similarities between Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone and the Civil War, you might just be using Ne.

The largest part of Ne, or at least the largest role it plays in my life and experiences, is the transplant of one instance's details into another scenario to draw connections which may lead to new ideas and ways of viewing whatever scenarios are intertwined in your mind. Think of these happenings as your having a puzzle that is mostly done but is still missing a number of pieces, and these holes are relatively spread out and numerous enough so that the insertion of different sorts of pieces with differing themes will produce vastly different results within the same framework and lead to numerous pictures. With Ne, you're supplied with an entire room full of various pieces with which to experiment with in concert with each other. The man holding the flowers in the center becomes alternately a love-crazed lunatic, a long lost father or brother, or an avid gardener who is currently sleep walking, depending upon the pieces you choose. Using Ne is to view all of these as possibilities, and the result of an interaction between Ne and possibly a judging function becomes the realized product of imagination.

Another way of explaining the use of Ne, although this may be incorrect in some ways as I'm my understanding is somewhat limited, is that the essence or the core traits of a situation can be extracted and then juxtaposed into other various shells of situations to create anew some scenario which shares these core traits. Metaphors are a prime example of this facet of Ne at work.

 

[Andy]

Is it possible? How can I do it?

I'm quite fond of Ne in the use of creative art and would very much like to develop that side. But I need that Si anchor, too. I'm so used to Se/Ni.

It's worth remembering that Ne is an attitude, not an ability. You cannot practice wanting something. For an ISFP, Ne is the trickster function, which means it is more of a cloak that covers one of the concious functions, changing it's appearance but it doesn't go much deeper than that.

The best you can probably get out of Ne in terms of art is to observe it in other people, then use this as inspiration for your art. Try to express they way they see the connections between things and why this connections cause them to act as they do. Maybe you can come up with an interesting picture, song or whatever you chosen media is. Basically, though you will still be opperating within Fi, Se, Ni, but I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[StrawMan]

Take something, anything, and try to transfer or connect it to another field of life or another (similar or totally different) situation. Then play with it and try to make something useful or funny of it all.

 

[entropie]

Serious post, (only be careful of all the subliminal messages....)

Anyway, lately I've been thinking of Si and Ne like this.
Si makes connections with more dots. So, they end up focusing on details one after the other. Experiences, things that are already known, things that work. They generally draw from what's already correct. If the dots draw a straight line, then they will follow a straight line and hopefully do things that make sense, since there is less room for interpretation.
Ne has less dots. So, perhaps the dots appear as though they could be in a straight line from one to the other, but maybe not. Like, Si would be like this.

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(connect those dots). There is less room for interpretation and more room for right and wrong, accuracy and inaccuracy. Less room for context because the correct answer is right in front of you. The next thing is going to be the next dot, and that's going to be the correct dot.

Ne is more like this

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Shortnsweet is the most amazing poster on the forum. Bow to her.








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Less dots. What happens in between the dots? Well, maybe a lot of loopdeeloos. One may be next to the other. And one may be on another planet somewhere. The point is that we connect the dots, right? Doesn't matter how. The benefit of this method is that you end up with a greater perspective of things, a lot of interpretation skills but much less accuracy, and possibly even a slower realization of what's right and wrong, what's accurate and inaccurate. It's less about the dots themselves, and more about what is in between.

So, ask yourself a question about something that you know little about from experience, and try to figure out the answer on your own. You will come up with something weird and wrong yet possibly insightful.

(Edit): Se: Dots, coming at them, all the time, from all different directions. Gotta figure out what dots to connect quickly.

Ni: Oh God, now I'm in over my head.

No.. Ne is a cloud of feelings and thoughts which are never random but leave the impression of a big picture. It's like after you have been to a movie that touched you and your head is full of new ideas. Everytime you talk about what you are feeling and thinking, you are left with the impression that what you have said is inadequate to what you are thinking. And not just ideas, but realizations, when you have gained a new perspective about the world thru the world. This in combination with an analytical mind can lead to great frustrations, especially when your big picture hunches tend to be true

 

[alcea rosea]

Um, actually no. ADHD is very common in Se types because of the hyperactivity aspect.

ENFP ADHD = a chaos in the head, but not necessarily seen by other people (not necessarily hyperactivity involved)??

 

[Thalassa]

ENFP ADHD = a chaos in the head, but not necessarily seen by other people (not necessarily hyperactivity involved)??

Well I've discussed this with someone who is an Ne dom who has ADD and also knows quite a bit about Jungian function theory, and it's extremely possible, in my opinion, that all of those kids who are being over-diagnosed with ADHD are just mainly Ne or Se dom/aux. While Ne can cause difficulty in mental focus, or easy distractability, in an Ne dom in particular, the Se dom may actually have trouble SITTING STILL, especially as a child.

I sometimes have trouble sitting still as an adult, meaning I get up and walk around or do things a lot, I have a hard time just sitting there being focused on one task, and I actually began pacing as a teenager, because I did not want to sit still and think. When I have an excess of energy I sometimes start bouncing around.

I'm not sure if it's even healthy to classify these people as ADD or ADHD when it simply could be a matter of how that child thinks or learns. Of course, in extreme cases the child (or adult) has trouble functioning and/or is completely incorrigible and out of control...and in those cases the ADD or ADHD label should be applied.

But in many cases it may simply be that the person learns better through experiential learning, should not be forced to sit still so much, blah blah blah.

It's not natural for any child to sit at a desk 6-8 hours a day, in my opinion, but for some children more than others because they have such a high energy level. There are adults who do not like to have desk jobs. I am one of them. Although I can work at a "desk job" it works best if I work from home and can get up and move or do other things when I feel like it.

 

[alcea rosea]

^ I agree with you that (too) many children are probably diagnosed with ADHD even if they are just "restless" (Ne, Se doms). And "traditional" teaching doesn't suit everybody and the schooling system needs some changes. I think what is the problem with ADHD, I mean a real problem in my opinoin (and I have been observing with one ExFx child with diagnosed ADHD) is the lack of ability to quiet down responses to all stimulis, meaning that there is no ability NOT to do everything that pops into their minds. And I think that is a very different thing than a child who is "just" restless and prefers Se. I think Ne looks a lot like Se as a child (my own experience on my preferences and how they look outside). But I can see how Se and Ne doms can easily be diagnosed with ADHD.

 

[entropie]

I never was restless, I prepared stuff beforehand and then sat their waiting, enjoying

 

[Lady_X]

we looked into all sorts of labels for my kid but it turns out he's just entp haha

 

[entropie]

That must be frustrating, how are you holding together ?

 

[Lady_X]

i love it to death! haha

 

[entropie]

yea, hopefully he has a mother streak, with a well developed emotional side you'll have a son other mothers will envy you for

 

[gromit]

It's not natural for any child to sit at a desk 6-8 hours a day

Probably not for adults either!

 

[Thalassa]

Probably not for adults either!

I agree which is why I tend to hate desk jobs. I cannot push paper, I have a hard time even being a writer if it's not fiction. Even I wrote fiction professionally I couldn't sit still all day every day.

It's one of the reasons why I'm thinking of going to culinary school.

 

[Lady_X]

i couldn't do it either...i mean...i did sit at a desk for years but i managed a hair salon so i really just sat there and visited with clients...not the same thing.

 

[entropie]

I am doing an internship as an engineer in construction atm. It's everything I ever wanted, sitting in front of a computer allday, constructing the most complicated stuff. They figured I am good with computers and gave me already after 2 weeks so much responsibility to attain to my own construction project. I dont know, I always wanted to invent stuff but I am feeling now after 2 weeks already that wont be my future. Gladly its only an internship, but I am already looking forward to monday in 2 weeks, cause then I'll go to sales and work in product management. At least I can talk to people there again and leave my desk for a minute

 

[JAVO]

Are you crazy? You'll shoot yer eye out kid!

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I am not much of an artist, and my Ne is a secondary function that feeds Ti, so my perspective may be colored by that.

For me, Ne is a constant speculation engine...the speculations could be wrong, but it just churns away. There are even speculations about the speculations and so on.
Like all extroverted functions, Ne is focused on the outside world...that's what makes it extroverted.

Say I meet a person, all off a sudden, a wave of speculations hit me about her.
Everything from: "It seems like we have ___ in common."
to: "She may like ___."
to: "She probably thinks I'm ____."
to: "I think she's into ___."
to: "She'll may like my friend ___."

It happens quick, and its a constant flood...a lot like Se, except instead of noticing a lot of the concrete things about a person or object, I "notice" a lot of the possibilities about the person or object.

As for practicing it, just open your mind to possibilities in the external world. You are used to Ni, which is more internal...having a vision of what you want, what you would like to create, what you foresee for yourself. It is very focused inward.

Si can aid Ne. Si is about inner world of actualities...have a clear memory of past events, comparing and contrasting different situations, proximal associations, noticing what is out of place.

I think it is good to be able to purposefully access cognitive faculties that we don't favor. But, I think it ought to be done judiciously. I looked at some of your art from the link you have in your signature. It is much better than I could have done. The Se-Ni combination can be very creative indeed.

As far as the way you describe meeting others, I don't know that is an example of Ne. I often jump mentally like that when meeting new people. I always related it to being either an introverted thing, a feeling thing, a sexual variant thing. IDK. An insecure thing, even.

Thank you for checking out my link, btw. I was thinking about starting a thread on the differences between each function/type/etc and the type of art related with each.

I am doing an internship as an engineer in construction atm. It's everything I ever wanted, sitting in front of a computer allday, constructing the most complicated stuff. They figured I am good with computers and gave me already after 2 weeks so much responsibility to attain to my own construction project. I dont know, I always wanted to invent stuff but I am feeling now after 2 weeks already that wont be my future. Gladly its only an internship, but I am already looking forward to monday in 2 weeks, cause then I'll go to sales and work in product management. At least I can talk to people there again and leave my desk for a minute

I strangely enough can do well sitting all day long or running around at work in a fast paced environment.

 

[lunalum]

It's worth remembering that Ne is an attitude, not an ability. You cannot practice wanting something. For an ISFP, Ne is the trickster function, which means it is more of a cloak that covers one of the concious functions, changing it's appearance but it doesn't go much deeper than that.

The best you can probably get out of Ne in terms of art is to observe it in other people, then use this as inspiration for your art. Try to express they way they see the connections between things and why this connections cause them to act as they do. Maybe you can come up with an interesting picture, song or whatever you chosen media is. Basically, though you will still be opperating within Fi, Se, Ni, but I wouldn't worry about it.

There is that itsy bitsy detail about the functions being attitudes and not abilities. That part really is important to note because it causes sooooo much confusion on what type is really about. Which is why my exercise was just a start, not to practice any "type ability" but to work with one's current type preferences to build an appreciation and get a taste of the kinds of things NPs get excited about. I was going to reveal my ways more dramatically, but this thread's fading anyway so I might as well say it now