User Tag List

First 45678 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 80

  1. #51
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    "Ball" is not a sensory input. It is a geometrical pattern associated with human playful activities.
    Well I guess your perspective of it as being such could be Ne, but the idea in and of itself is not Ne. Seeing that a football is related to a soccer ball is not automatically Ne.

    Functional attitudes are attitudes, they're ways of seeing the world, so your particular WAY of describing balls could be Ne, but your initial explanation is more like Si.

    It's not just me being a pest. Someone who is also an Ne type agreed with me it was a bad analogy.

  2. #52
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    7,370

    Default

    While "what does that remind me of" and the subsequent memory recall may be related to Si, the way Ne uses that is like a ripple effect.

    For example, while trying to devise what to write, I'm looking at a wiimote, with a protective transparent rubber casing, and, applying the Si-related question, some results related to any aspect of the object in question can surfface, e.g., remote controllers, for consoles or in general, gaming consoles, cartrige games, as these are linked by affiliation individually, but also collectively, if for they are all made of ABS plastic, which is not entirely biodegradable as it requires petroleum to manufacture. The rubber casing however, is often latex based, which can be organic and already an idea surfaces regarding the possibility of using organic plastic like Polylactic acid (PLA) which is a bio-degradable polymer, to replace the more sintetic plastic uses, although it's likely that Ti already assisted Ne with researching and insorting out data to present that polished example.

    This was only a small scenario, because the ripple magnitude will depend on context. When looking for a solution to a problem/challenge, the process can extend to great lengths. Imagine each iteration as the output of the [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjbtZ4NgtdA"]Improbability Drive[/YOUTUBE]changing the variables and then trying to infer their utility before changing them again.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  3. #53
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    6,748

    Default

    Drive really really fast like you normally would as an Se. See all the possibilities along the way. See a ditch, and imagine it as a possible extension of the road, (Ne- seeing possibilities, nothing's inherently wrong.) and then see what happens.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  4. #54
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    XNFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,170

    Default

    Puns, word play, double entendre.....they all tend to be Ne related.

    Craft,
    I was thinking about your sports ball example....if I was bouncing a basket ball, I'd maybe be thinking about planets and gravity, try to spin the ball on my finger, and think about spinning plates, the centrifuge at work, rotation forces....why our atmosphere doesn't float away.

    Indy,
    I was thinking spider diagrams are pretty much the 101 of Ne thinking. Think of a topic, say Doc marten boots, think of a couple of associations. The 90's, leather, fashion. Take one of those associations say leather, and follow the associations....for it would be cow skin, cows milk, cheese, tomato, pasta, Italian......italian leather shoes. The 90's....grunge.....Kurt cobain, suicide, disaffective youths, punk!, and my last word chosen fashion already has connections with the other two, both punk, and Italian leather shoes are seen as fashion, but now you have a whole new topic to explore.
    The above examples may not be the best, as Craft said, it's hard to force....and I'll admit describe, but if you start spider diagrams and follow trains of thought through....that's a good lead in to introductory Ne.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #55
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INfp
    Enneagram
    9w1 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    5,295

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Drive really really fast like you normally would as an Se. See all the possibilities along the way. See a ditch, and imagine it as a possible extension of the road, (Ne- seeing possibilities, nothing's inherently wrong.) and then see what happens.
    No no no... Ne wouldn't necessarily need to drive into the ditch because it's already wondering about how to create jackalopes before it even reaches the ditch. If the topic of conversation comes up, Ne will just say that ditches are good people too.

  6. #56
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    IYou're probably right. I would actually be just as curious to see what Ni art is like. Sometimes when I look at art, I think, "That is soooo Ne. And bad ass!" But I don't really have those moments with Ni.
    I think that's probably because to a certain degree, Ni is already an integrated part of your thought process. Se and Ni are not really opposites, I don't think, but two sides of the same coin. When you live in the moment (Se) you must have a concept of where you want to go. (Ni) There are principles and general understandings from which you act. One cannot exist without the other. Ne may be great, but I don't think an Se/Ni user can really truly understand it without becoming something else. I can theoretically understand it, but I'm not sure I'll ever really get it, and I'm not sure I want to, because that would require me changing into a different person in a way I don't want to. I think, in the end, full development of your core personality is preferable to focusing on another personality which isn't necessarily who you really are. I want to be the best INTJ I possibly can be, but I'm no ENTP, and I don't think I'd make a very good one, because INTJ is just too strongly integrated into who I am.
    You lose.

    _______

    RCOEI
    Melancholic-Choleric
    Respectful Leader

    Johari Window|Nohari Window

  7. #57
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 so/sp
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    2,484

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    Is it possible? How can I do it?
    I'm quite fond of Ne in the use of creative art and would very much like to develop that side. But I need that Si anchor, too. I'm so used to Se/Ni.
    First of all, are you sure you want to do this for art? It’s nothing but trouble I’m sure you don’t want the whole story in regard to my experiences with art classes but it’s really a nightmare of so many crazy images inspired but first needing the patience and focus to get things on canvas AS THEY ARE. I want to paint this majestic equestrian world with spiraling staircases, planets in the background, and rainbow waterfalls. But I can’t even draw the goshdarned horse to look like a horse rather than a mutated donkey-rhino....

    Anyway, let’s throw that whole “you can’t have Se and Ne as a function perspective at the same time” thingy away a deep dark closet for a second and try some games.
    Captioning the world: take interesting pictures and give captions to them that are somewhat unexpected for the picture at hand, so that the picture and the caption together create something new. For inspiration, there is this phenomenon called LOLcats…

    This is not a…: take an object, and say to it, “This is not a _____. It is really a _____.” Now explain how the thing is really the new thing and act like it is the new thing.

    Collaborative story making: yes, you’ll need another person for this, but at least this one is pretty self-explanatory.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    - Try to broaden your external context, assuming the apparent facts & sensations/experiences have left out some aspect of reality, an important part that will key you into a "solution".
    - Don't view anything as impossible, even if its only possibility is remote, unlikely or completely fantastical.
    - Don't dismiss contemplating & mentally exploring these remote possibilities even if you have no intention of doing it and/or it has no practical value.
    - Trust hypothesis over experience.


    - Imagine currently reality as a cage, and brainstorm on how you can escape that cage, but not in a physical sense.
    But I think this one needs some explaining. It’s a really good metaphor for describing the perspective in general, but it’s very difficult as an exercise because it is asking of how to escape all of reality. Instead, one could start with a very specific part of reality of which to brainstorm escaping, and build from there. Like, “Can we wear time pieces on other places than our wrists?” “Why do cars have to move upon wheels?” and “Why aren’t we allowed to press that big red button?” (I suggest not getting any real red buttons involved. If the exercise goes well, buttons will be pressed )

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Intuition can be like that. You focus on these intangible pieces of info that cannot be articulated, & it's often indirectly inspired by external experience/info. It's like they're on the tip of your tongue, and your mind is working in the background to convert it into something comprehensible to even you. However, with intuition, these "words" are information or insights that you didn't know you even knew; often it's because they amount to new ideas. They seem to come out of nowhere in that way. Perceptions come to intuitives like this. The tangible world is absorbed almost indirectly, passively, and their mind is focused on articulating some concept or possible explanation which will sum it all up so well.

    So imagine if that whole time you were focused & aware of how the word was emerging in your mind. The intuitive is more aware of these background processes because its their preferred process. This is where the dreamy side comes about; the person is focusing on articulating a mental concept in their head, not the tangible stuff around them. Or, they will want to pull in others to articulate it (Ne-dom mainly), and basically shoot ideas back & forth until it emerges clearly. Just as when you're trying to articulate that word on the tip of your tongue, you may ask people stuff to help you figure it out, to confirm that is the word you want. The pursuit of possibilities is the visible manifestation of someone trying to articulate the idea. Doesn't it drive you nuts when you have a word on the tip of your tongue? This is why Ne is associated with being restless, spontaneous, fickle even. They're jumping from thing to thing in pursuit of finding something, something they can't even define.
    This is an awesome description/definition to work from here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    When people talk about aliens I look at them funny and when they talk about flying unicorns I laugh or roll my eyes. Entertaining things that ARE COMPLETELY FANTASTICAL seems like a pointless waste of time, and can get boring.
    LOL, yeah…. Extraverted intuition has nothing to do with aliens riding flying unicorns out into the sunset, even if sometimes I will mess around and pretend it does. But I am trying to take this more seriously now, so I’ll try not to mislead like that.

    Though there is that story making aspect, I think. And aliens riding flying unicorns into the sunset might be the end to a great story, right? Okay, probably not your taste But I don’t think the taste difference is related much to type.

    And I’ll get bored with pure fantasy too. There’s still the drive to see those things in reality somehow, and when that doesn’t seem to be happening, it’s on to the next thing. Find the potential of a thing, try to make it happen, find another thing. Rinse and repeat.

  8. #58
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    1,764

    Default

    I don't know if I could improve Se, and I'm even less sure if I even want to develop my Ni. If developing the latter one means she's a bit less pessimistic and would let me sleep at night, then, sure.
    Here's how I might go at developing Se: by using it, as conscious as possible. Observe things for what they are instead of letting them trigger a whole chain of what-might-be, enjoy a rollercoaster ride for once without building a better rollercoaster in my head,...
    Usually I put my Ne on the side track of "someday we'll use this in a story, we need the details" and try to describe what I'm observing.

    And now you're probably thinking - hey, Tamske, it's the other way around, I'm a natural at Se and I want to develop Ne.
    Well, here's your first exercise. Take my words to a broader context, generalize them to "how do I develop any function" and then get again to particulars "how do I develop Ne"

    Because I've seen times and again with my math students. They don't have problems with the concrete (apples and pies). They have some problems with the abstract (x and y), but the most problems they have with going from concrete to abstract and back. Everyone can do that to a certain level. I bet you don't have any problems with the concept of "twelve", but it IS an abstraction. Twelve pieces of paper, twelve beautiful girls at the movie theatre, twelve eggs and twelve centimeters are all very different things. They only share one thing and that thing is very abstract indeed.
    And I bet you don't have problems with going one step further in abstraction, either, with the concept of "a number". Twelve is a number, but so is five, and one thousand, and zero. What do all these things have in common? What is it that makes them "numbers"? Can you find another example of "a number"?
    Now just realize what you've done. You've gone from particulars (twelve, five, one thousand, zero), to a general idea (number) and back to a particular.
    You did it with functions, you did it with numbers. Maybe another, non-mathematical example?
    What does ice cream, pie, an apple and a piece of cheese in common?
    Do the same thing with lots and lots of other instances.
    And realize what you've done NOW. You've done a higher order abstraction. The particulars (go from "twelve eggs" to "twelve" and back to "twelve of another thing"; go from "twelve" to "a number" and back to another number) are examples of a general rule (go from particular to general and back) and you can find other examples.
    If you've done this (and not only read about it, really did find general rules and other examples etc), you've been using your Ne.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  9. #59
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    6,748

    Default

    Serious post, (only be careful of all the subliminal messages....)

    Anyway, lately I've been thinking of Si and Ne like this.
    Si makes connections with more dots. So, they end up focusing on details one after the other. Experiences, things that are already known, things that work. They generally draw from what's already correct. If the dots draw a straight line, then they will follow a straight line and hopefully do things that make sense, since there is less room for interpretation.
    Ne has less dots. So, perhaps the dots appear as though they could be in a straight line from one to the other, but maybe not. Like, Si would be like this.

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    (connect those dots). There is less room for interpretation and more room for right and wrong, accuracy and inaccuracy. Less room for context because the correct answer is right in front of you. The next thing is going to be the next dot, and that's going to be the correct dot.

    Ne is more like this

    .




    .

    .









    .




    Shortnsweet is the most amazing poster on the forum. Bow to her.









    .

    Less dots. What happens in between the dots? Well, maybe a lot of loopdeeloos. One may be next to the other. And one may be on another planet somewhere. The point is that we connect the dots, right? Doesn't matter how. The benefit of this method is that you end up with a greater perspective of things, a lot of interpretation skills but much less accuracy, and possibly even a slower realization of what's right and wrong, what's accurate and inaccurate. It's less about the dots themselves, and more about what is in between.

    So, ask yourself a question about something that you know little about from experience, and try to figure out the answer on your own. You will come up with something weird and wrong yet possibly insightful.

    (Edit): Se: Dots, coming at them, all the time, from all different directions. Gotta figure out what dots to connect quickly.

    Ni: Oh God, now I'm in over my head.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  10. #60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    Is it possible? How can I do it?

    I'm quite fond of Ne in the use of creative art and would very much like to develop that side. But I need that Si anchor, too. I'm so used to Se/Ni.
    I am not much of an artist, and my Ne is a secondary function that feeds Ti, so my perspective may be colored by that.

    For me, Ne is a constant speculation engine...the speculations could be wrong, but it just churns away. There are even speculations about the speculations and so on.
    Like all extroverted functions, Ne is focused on the outside world...that's what makes it extroverted.

    Say I meet a person, all off a sudden, a wave of speculations hit me about her.
    Everything from: "It seems like we have ___ in common."
    to: "She may like ___."
    to: "She probably thinks I'm ____."
    to: "I think she's into ___."
    to: "She'll may like my friend ___."

    It happens quick, and its a constant flood...a lot like Se, except instead of noticing a lot of the concrete things about a person or object, I "notice" a lot of the possibilities about the person or object.

    As for practicing it, just open your mind to possibilities in the external world. You are used to Ni, which is more internal...having a vision of what you want, what you would like to create, what you foresee for yourself. It is very focused inward.

    Si can aid Ne. Si is about inner world of actualities...have a clear memory of past events, comparing and contrasting different situations, proximal associations, noticing what is out of place.

    I think it is good to be able to purposefully access cognitive faculties that we don't favor. But, I think it ought to be done judiciously. I looked at some of your art from the link you have in your signature. It is much better than I could have done. The Se-Ni combination can be very creative indeed.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 294
    Last Post: 10-07-2017, 08:07 PM
  2. How to develop Si as a Ne dom?
    By giorgaros2 in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-14-2015, 12:30 PM
  3. [MBTItm] Wanting to be both T and F, what made u decide which?
    By UnitOfPopulation in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: 11-08-2007, 12:58 AM
  4. Need to change, don't want to change.
    By prplchknz in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-28-2007, 10:37 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO