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  1. #1
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Default Introverted Perceiving versus Extroverted Perceiving

    We have Perceivers who experience their senses and intuition externally and we have Judgers who experience their senses and intuition internally.

    I'm an extroverted sensor and I have a pretty fair understanding of extroverted intuition, as it's not that far off. But, I have a hard time understanding what it's like to work with these two functions in an introverted fashion.

    Would any Ni or Si users care to elaborate on what it is like and what it means to use the perceiving functions internally versus externally?
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  2. #2
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    Would any Ni or Si users care to elaborate on what it is like and what it means to use the perceiving functions internally versus externally?
    I was thinking someone else would give an example... but I guess I'll try to give a stab to it. (Correct me if may be.)

    Both Si and Ni are references.
    Si is a specific reference.
    Ni is a general reference.
    Ne and Se are information received in the present moment.

    In terms of how it is used as an example.

    Ni is like looking at archetypes, it is a general concept of a similar theme. Take, for example, a hero. A Ni type may see that practically all cultures in the world has an archetype of a hero (or anti-hero.) This, in turn, is a general reference point of what a hero is. But this reference point of a hero is malleable, a hero from Europe, may be slightly different from a hero from Asia. As a hero from Asia, could be slightly different from a hero from North America. The hero can also have a personal touch to it. But beyond all else, these people are all referenced towards the archetype of hero.

    Si will call upon detailed references of a hero. The MANY people who are considered a hero. The Si user, may once have been saved by an firefighter, and see the reference point of a hero towards the firefighter. The Si user, may see George Washington and the rest of the 1776ers as heroes, they have help build America. Without them, there may not have been an America to live in. A reference point is built towards those specific times.

    Ni is generally more malleable as the references are "more" loose while Si is generally more "static" as the references are more specific. Ni is like the chapters of a book (chapter 1, 2, 3,...) while Si is like the sections of the book (section 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, ....) Chapter 1 encompasses section 1.X as the sections has a common theme to chapter 1 as the same could be said of chapter 2 and chapter 3....

    If you want to see the difference between Ne vs Ni, this thread may help.

  3. #3
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Rave View Post
    ....
    no, archetypes has nothing to do with typology .

    first of all extraversion is putting from inside world to outside world(it includes subjective judgments/perceptions to external world) and introversion is taking what is seen irrelevant out of the outside world(this way creating an subjective view of it).

    and i think you need to look at J functions too when thinking about P.

    but lets first look at S and N like this:

    Sensation: Perceiving directly to conscious what is in the present moment in detailed and concrete manner. "Is there something there/what is?".
    Intuition: Perceiving connection between details which are perceived unconsciously and taken to consciousness indirectly. The connection between things comes to conscious mind, therefore building up big picture perception. Also perceives how things could/might be, and answering to question: "Where did it come from and where is it going?". because it looks at "where something came from and where is it going", its not the perception of the present moment.

    but all people use both functions, its just that if N is E, S is I or other way around, and that other function works more unconsciously.

    now if you take the fact that E is including and I is excluding. so what do they include or exclude. its the functions in the opposite orientation.



    if you think it like this:

    Pe feeds info to Ji(which removes irrelevant from it), Ji feeds Pi(which only takes in what is seen necessary), Pi is included to/guiding Je(Pi is creating a subjective bias to Je), Je guides Pe(Pe includes/is guided by Je judgments), Pe feeds Ji and the cycle goes on and on. some types has more conscious Je and less conscious Ji, and pretty much fully unconscious Pe, they all are still contributing to this, you just dont notice it(since they are unconscious)

    and when it comes to I/E functions.

    with Ni those details(which N connects unconsciously) i mentioned in N description are judgments, memories, perceptions etc. it only connects what is seen relevant. Ni works with Se, so external perception is about details and facts of "what is".


    with Si those details are also judgments, memories, perceptions etc. but instead of connecting dots between them, it tells you what is and compares them, based on these judgments, perception, memories etc. also when it comes to Si, external perception of details comes through unconscious(as the external perceptions are from Ne) to Si users, first the irrelevant is taken out and whats left enters the consciousness, is stored there and is able to be directly perceived to consciousness. this leaving out of external perceptions makes an experience that would otherwise be sensuous, making it aesthetic. also comparing memories/judgments/etc to the present moment. with Ne the details(which are connected), are details of external world that are perceived unconsciously.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    @Burning Rave and @INTP, thanks for the input.

    I think it's too early in the morning for me to comprehend right now. I'll come back to these later.

    I can pinpoint what Si and Ni from an outside perspective by observing behavior outcomes, and I have a general idea of how these two functions work. My question is more so trying to understand how perceiving can be done internally... as my external perceiving ways is what I'm used to and makes sense to me. For whatever reason, I can understand more easily how thinking and feeling are judging forms and how they can work both internally and externally... but sensing and intuition is a bit more difficult to really grasp all the time. Make sense?
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
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  5. #5
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    no, archetypes has nothing to do with typology .
    I was just giving an example (wasn't saying that archetypes were part of typology) of how the two might be used. It just so happens archetypes(hero) was used as an example as it was a thought that came to mind. Sometimes, it is just easier to understand something when you give a relation to another.

  6. #6

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    I guess this post applies here too.

    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    That is a good way to describe Pi. Its users are a bit like sailors! Pi signals our transitory position by pinging or evaluating our location in relation to the tangible or intangible things around us. Si-doms use dead reckoning, Ni-doms use celestial navigation.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

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