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Alcoholics.

Randomnity

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How does this happen? Do you have to be uber-N? How do you forget to sleep and drink water, even if you're one of those people who can go without eating? I can't do any of the above. It sounds absolutely bizarre to me.

I'm one of those people who can't go 2 hours without eating something.....but I can play video games for 6-8 hours straight without getting up and without noticing how much time is passing. It's easy for a lot of people to get absorbed by it and not really pay attention to the external world. So, I believe it. I don't think it's an N (or S) thing, either. It's not being lost in abstract thought, it's being really absorbed in doing something. I get that way with reading a good book but to a much lesser extent (maybe 4-5 hours).
 

King sns

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i think you just crave fun...the social happy times you have with your friends when you're all out drinking....maybe you just get bored.

Thank you for being kind, but it's definitely the substance I crave- (straight vodka or scotch to be exact.) ! I don't remember being bored a day in my life, either- sometimes I'd like to do my running and scrapbooking, doggy parking and reading, writing, hanging out with my friends and stuff, but end up too hungover to follow through. Like I said, I don't drink much in public anymore. Too embarrassing, people are getting suspicious, and I can't trust myself around the alcohol despite the potential for destroying relationships. *Thinks of all the times I drank with friends and ensuing disasters.* Nope, definitely not craving those times! :laugh: (It's already assisted in the completion of one relationship, and impaired a few friendships that bounced back, I can't do that anymore.)
 

ICUP

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How does this happen? Do you have to be uber-N? How do you forget to sleep and drink water, even if you're one of those people who can go without eating? I can't do any of the above. It sounds absolutely bizarre to me.

Maybe they are initially just doing enough to stay alive, basically on the brink of starvation/dehydration already, and when they go a little further, it's enough to cause a heart attack/ do them in.........?

Yea, gamers can become absorbed in games to the point where they ignore their needs, usually not for 3 days, but.....
 

King sns

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How does this happen? Do you have to be uber-N? How do you forget to sleep and drink water, even if you're one of those people who can go without eating? I can't do any of the above. It sounds absolutely bizarre to me.

It's the nature of addiction. It's not a substance in this case, but it's an addiction none the less. They live for the game. Is this the first time you heard of that guy?
 

Thalassa

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I'm one of those people who can't go 2 hours without eating something.....but I can play video games for 6-8 hours straight without getting up and without noticing how much time is passing. It's easy for a lot of people to get absorbed by it and not really pay attention to the external world. So, I believe it. I don't think it's an N (or S) thing, either. It's not being lost in abstract thought, it's being really absorbed in doing something. I get that way with reading a good book but to a much lesser extent (maybe 4-5 hours).

I do know what you mean about getting lost in doing something (reading a book, arguing with people on typology central haha) but I still could never ignore my body like that. I'd be so miserable and unhappy.

It makes me happy to go outside, to eat chocolate cheerios, to drink tea, to sleep...I mean I've gone without enough sleep before, but it's usually because I'm in a neurotic state, and I don't function well.

2 days, let alone 3 seems outrageous to me. It's one thing to go 6-8 hours and think "wow I've been absorbed in this all day" and to be dehydrated for DAYS.

What? Really, what?

I don't understand. No comprende. Very disturbing.
 

King sns

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I'm one of those people who can't go 2 hours without eating something.....but I can play video games for 6-8 hours straight without getting up and without noticing how much time is passing. It's easy for a lot of people to get absorbed by it and not really pay attention to the external world. So, I believe it. I don't think it's an N (or S) thing, either. It's not being lost in abstract thought, it's being really absorbed in doing something. I get that way with reading a good book but to a much lesser extent (maybe 4-5 hours).

I can totally see this happening. Just type C alone. But put me on here on a good day and a couple of hours will pass and I'll find out that my toungue is hanging out of my mouth, all dried up, and my bladder is going to explode!!! Same goes for the Sims, Guitar Hero, or a good book! :laugh: I get where someone may take this phenomenon to an extreme addiction and die, especially if he had other mental abnormalities involved.
 

miss fortune

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wow... now I have to feel really bad because I went through a time when I only ate so that I could drink more... and had been known to wander off, puke, and then go right back to drinking :unsure:

I was also quite good at being a total flake about any promises or social obligations and not keeping in contact with anyone who I couldn't meet at the bar :sorry:

I might have one drink every few months on special occasions, but haven't done that for quite a while under suspicion that it falls into the Bad Ideas category... I know what hold alcohol has over me- it lets me escape myself for a little bit of time and that can be amazingly tempting from time to time for someone who doesn't always like themselves very much... it's too tempting :sadbanana:
 

Lady_X

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Thank you for being kind, but it's definitely the substance I crave- (straight vodka or scotch to be exact.) ! I don't remember being bored a day in my life, either- sometimes I'd like to do my running and scrapbooking, doggy parking and reading, writing, hanging out with my friends and stuff, but end up too hungover to follow through. Like I said, I don't drink much in public anymore. Too embarrassing, people are getting suspicious, and I can't trust myself around the alcohol despite the potential for destroying relationships. *Thinks of all the times I drank with friends and ensuing disasters.* Nope, definitely not craving those times! :laugh: (It's already assisted in the completion of one relationship, and impaired a few friendships that bounced back, I can't do that anymore.)

oh damn okay...i was just projecting i guess...like what it would be for me if i had an issue...i'm sorry sweets but am very proud of you for being open with this. i hope you get a handle on it. :hug:
 

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I have what I believe to a predisposition to addictive behavior so I'm wary of alcohol. If nothing else I know I have a tendency to have one more than is wise when I drink - "two beers" hardly exists for me. On the other hand I can go for weeks, occasionally months without a drink.

At various times I’ve smoked a lot of tobacco and when I was 14 or 15 a lot of dope. I used to be an obsessive runner and later when I race bicycles I was REALLY obsessive about training. I don’t know if that kind of obsession is related to addiction or not but it seems to be better to err on the side of caution and assume I’m at risk of stumbling into an addiction that will at best take time and annoyance to deal with.

i think it is definitely...it's an all or nothing mentality...not knowing when enough is enough...if some is good more is better. i know several people like this...with party substances or running or being healthy or whatever the fixation of the moment is.
 

Mole

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Addiction as a trance within a trance

There have been many attempts to understand and explain addiction and an interesting explanation is that of Dennis Wier.

Dennis say addiction is a trance within a trance, and as we come out of the first trance we are precipitated into the second trance, and as we come out of the second trance, we are precipitated back into the first trance. And so round and round we go, with no way out.

The advantage of this explanation is that it seems to account for the facts, and it accounts for the various kinds of addiction, and it may offer a way out.

We can find Dennis Wier on http://www.tranceresearch.org/b284/?page_id=6
 

King sns

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There have been many attempts to understand and explain addiction and an interesting explanation is that of Dennis Wier.

Dennis say addiction is a trance within a trance, and as we come out of the first trance we are precipitated into the second trance, and as we come out of the second trance, we are precipitated back into the first trance. And so round and round we go, with no way out.

The advantage of this explanation is that it seems to account for the facts, and it accounts for the various kinds of addiction, and it may offer a way out.

We can find Dennis Wier on http://www.tranceresearch.org/b284/?page_id=6

Cool! So our world is like a trance, and then we turn to addiction to escape it, ( a trance in and of itself), and then you don't like that world either so you use another form of escapism to get out of it. So essentially now you're in a trance within a trance within a trance. So say you use writing or music to get out of it, (the third trance) and you go into a little kid's funhouse and practice your new escape, (music or whatever.) So that's even better than drugs! That's like a trance within a trance within a trance within a trance. WOAH, not sure I'd even opt to go back to reality!
 

ICUP

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Cool! So our world is like a trance, and then we turn to addiction to escape it, ( a trance in and of itself), and then you don't like that world either so you use another form of escapism to get out of it. So essentially now you're in a trance within a trance within a trance. So say you use writing or music to get out of it, (the third trance) and you go into a little kid's funhouse and practice your new escape, (music or whatever.) So that's even better than drugs! That's like a trance within a trance within a trance within a trance. WOAH, not sure I'd even opt to go back to reality!

Sign me up! :D
 

Hopelandic

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My dad is an alcoholic, though a relatively high functioning one. Sometimes it's hard, there have been some very low periods. Generally it's smooth sailing, but then money goes missing again.... I can never truly know.
 

Mole

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Athletes and Aesthetes

Cool! So our world is like a trance, and then we turn to addiction to escape it, ( a trance in and of itself), and then you don't like that world either so you use another form of escapism to get out of it. So essentially now you're in a trance within a trance within a trance. So say you use writing or music to get out of it, (the third trance) and you go into a little kid's funhouse and practice your new escape, (music or whatever.) So that's even better than drugs! That's like a trance within a trance within a trance within a trance. WOAH, not sure I'd even opt to go back to reality!

A good example of a trance is the hypnogogic trance which we all experience twice a day as we fall asleep and as we wake up.

And this is a good example because it is an involuntary trance, as are almost all the trances we experience during the day.

However we can learn to enter and leave a trance consciously and safely. I learnt to enter and leave a trance safely in a class at the Australian National University run by John Turnbull who is a sports' psychologist. Of course the class was mainly for athletes who wanted to improve their performance. But the class was not only for athletes but also for aesthetes like myself. So side by side, the athletes and the aethetes learnt to enter and leave a trance consciously and safely.
 
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My grandfather was an alcoholic who died of liver failure.

I went through "an alkie phase" which I recognise as... er, well, alcoholism. I even joke with my friends about my weeks post-thesis that I barely remember because I was completely smashed every day. I had some serious ongoing issues then (and now), but had to stop drinking because I went on antidepressants and they REALLY don't mix well. With my previous medications it was just flat-out dangerous to mix them. So I stopped for something like a year. Then I went on Lexapro, which seemed ok with the occasional drink (once every 8 weeks or so). I still had problems saying "no" once I'd had the first beer though. Now I'm on Effexor, which makes me feel nauseous and gives me a headache whenever I take any amount of alcohol, so I've stopped completely.

I know that my ability to say "no thanks, I've had enough" is inversely proportional to the number of drinks that I've had, so I try to stay away from alcohol completely now. I recognise that because of my ongoing issues, unhealthy relationship with alcohol and predisposition to alcoholism, I am an alcoholic (even though I don't drink). Shortnsweet, good luck. I know how hard it is.
 

Mole

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Yes, the description of addiction as a trance within a trance, is very much like the double bind of schizophrenia.
 

King sns

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Yes, the description of addiction as a trance within a trance, is very much like the double bind of schizophrenia.

Example of Trances within more trances. I can't even count the trances, otherwise I would specify how many.

[YOUTUBE="k7VzWitgeU4"]A trance within a trance.[/YOUTUBE]
 

Mole

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Sweet Trance

Example of Trances within more trances. I can't even count the trances, otherwise I would specify how many.

Yes, Sweet, trances within trances are fascinating.

First we enter a trance. Then within that trance, we enter another trance, and then, within both trances we enter a third trance. And by then we are deeply entranced.

As we sink deeper and deeper into trances, strange things happen. At about the fourth level, we lose contact with reality, and the deepest trance becomes reality for us.

And at this level of trance, God reveals Himself to us. So we might say that the revelation in the Bible or the Koran or the Gita are vouchsafed to us at a deep level of trance.

Also we can say that Relativity was vouchsafed to Albert Einstein at the deepest level of trance. Just as we can say Quantum Mechanics was vouchsafed to Erwin Schrödinger at the deepest level of trance.

So we find both God and the natural world at the deepest level of trance.

Some say we find ourselves, but I will leave that to you to find out, my Sweet.
 

King sns

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Yes, Sweet, trances within trances are fascinating.

First we enter a trance. Then within that trance, we enter another trance, and then, within both trances we enter a third trance. And by then we are deeply entranced.

As we sink deeper and deeper into trances, strange things happen. At about the fourth level, we lose contact with reality, and the deepest trance becomes reality for us.

And at this level of trance, God reveals Himself to us. So we might say that the revelation in the Bible or the Koran or the Gita are vouchsafed to us at a deep level of trance.

Also we can say that Relativity was vouchsafed to Albert Einstein at the deepest level of trance. Just as we can say Quantum Mechanics was vouchsafed to Erwin Schrödinger at the deepest level of trance.

So we find both God and the natural world at the deepest level of trance.

Some say we find ourselves, but I will leave that to you to find out, my Sweet.

Not to be too derailing or trolling or flaming or off topic or whatever popular term they are using nowadays, but you seem like you're in a bit of a trance yourself.
 
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