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Thread: Alcoholics.

  1. #91
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    Smile Addiction as a trance within a trance

    There have been many attempts to understand and explain addiction and an interesting explanation is that of Dennis Wier.

    Dennis say addiction is a trance within a trance, and as we come out of the first trance we are precipitated into the second trance, and as we come out of the second trance, we are precipitated back into the first trance. And so round and round we go, with no way out.

    The advantage of this explanation is that it seems to account for the facts, and it accounts for the various kinds of addiction, and it may offer a way out.

    We can find Dennis Wier on http://www.tranceresearch.org/b284/?page_id=6

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    There have been many attempts to understand and explain addiction and an interesting explanation is that of Dennis Wier.

    Dennis say addiction is a trance within a trance, and as we come out of the first trance we are precipitated into the second trance, and as we come out of the second trance, we are precipitated back into the first trance. And so round and round we go, with no way out.

    The advantage of this explanation is that it seems to account for the facts, and it accounts for the various kinds of addiction, and it may offer a way out.

    We can find Dennis Wier on http://www.tranceresearch.org/b284/?page_id=6
    Cool! So our world is like a trance, and then we turn to addiction to escape it, ( a trance in and of itself), and then you don't like that world either so you use another form of escapism to get out of it. So essentially now you're in a trance within a trance within a trance. So say you use writing or music to get out of it, (the third trance) and you go into a little kid's funhouse and practice your new escape, (music or whatever.) So that's even better than drugs! That's like a trance within a trance within a trance within a trance. WOAH, not sure I'd even opt to go back to reality!
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
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    by sns.

  3. #93
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Cool! So our world is like a trance, and then we turn to addiction to escape it, ( a trance in and of itself), and then you don't like that world either so you use another form of escapism to get out of it. So essentially now you're in a trance within a trance within a trance. So say you use writing or music to get out of it, (the third trance) and you go into a little kid's funhouse and practice your new escape, (music or whatever.) So that's even better than drugs! That's like a trance within a trance within a trance within a trance. WOAH, not sure I'd even opt to go back to reality!
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  4. #94
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    My dad is an alcoholic, though a relatively high functioning one. Sometimes it's hard, there have been some very low periods. Generally it's smooth sailing, but then money goes missing again.... I can never truly know.

  5. #95
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    Smile Athletes and Aesthetes

    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Cool! So our world is like a trance, and then we turn to addiction to escape it, ( a trance in and of itself), and then you don't like that world either so you use another form of escapism to get out of it. So essentially now you're in a trance within a trance within a trance. So say you use writing or music to get out of it, (the third trance) and you go into a little kid's funhouse and practice your new escape, (music or whatever.) So that's even better than drugs! That's like a trance within a trance within a trance within a trance. WOAH, not sure I'd even opt to go back to reality!
    A good example of a trance is the hypnogogic trance which we all experience twice a day as we fall asleep and as we wake up.

    And this is a good example because it is an involuntary trance, as are almost all the trances we experience during the day.

    However we can learn to enter and leave a trance consciously and safely. I learnt to enter and leave a trance safely in a class at the Australian National University run by John Turnbull who is a sports' psychologist. Of course the class was mainly for athletes who wanted to improve their performance. But the class was not only for athletes but also for aesthetes like myself. So side by side, the athletes and the aethetes learnt to enter and leave a trance consciously and safely.

  6. #96
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    My grandfather was an alcoholic who died of liver failure.

    I went through "an alkie phase" which I recognise as... er, well, alcoholism. I even joke with my friends about my weeks post-thesis that I barely remember because I was completely smashed every day. I had some serious ongoing issues then (and now), but had to stop drinking because I went on antidepressants and they REALLY don't mix well. With my previous medications it was just flat-out dangerous to mix them. So I stopped for something like a year. Then I went on Lexapro, which seemed ok with the occasional drink (once every 8 weeks or so). I still had problems saying "no" once I'd had the first beer though. Now I'm on Effexor, which makes me feel nauseous and gives me a headache whenever I take any amount of alcohol, so I've stopped completely.

    I know that my ability to say "no thanks, I've had enough" is inversely proportional to the number of drinks that I've had, so I try to stay away from alcohol completely now. I recognise that because of my ongoing issues, unhealthy relationship with alcohol and predisposition to alcoholism, I am an alcoholic (even though I don't drink). Shortnsweet, good luck. I know how hard it is.

  7. #97
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    Yes, the description of addiction as a trance within a trance, is very much like the double bind of schizophrenia.

  8. #98
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, the description of addiction as a trance within a trance, is very much like the double bind of schizophrenia.
    Example of Trances within more trances. I can't even count the trances, otherwise I would specify how many.

    [YOUTUBE="k7VzWitgeU4"]A trance within a trance.[/YOUTUBE]
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  9. #99
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    Smile Sweet Trance

    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Example of Trances within more trances. I can't even count the trances, otherwise I would specify how many.
    Yes, Sweet, trances within trances are fascinating.

    First we enter a trance. Then within that trance, we enter another trance, and then, within both trances we enter a third trance. And by then we are deeply entranced.

    As we sink deeper and deeper into trances, strange things happen. At about the fourth level, we lose contact with reality, and the deepest trance becomes reality for us.

    And at this level of trance, God reveals Himself to us. So we might say that the revelation in the Bible or the Koran or the Gita are vouchsafed to us at a deep level of trance.

    Also we can say that Relativity was vouchsafed to Albert Einstein at the deepest level of trance. Just as we can say Quantum Mechanics was vouchsafed to Erwin Schrödinger at the deepest level of trance.

    So we find both God and the natural world at the deepest level of trance.

    Some say we find ourselves, but I will leave that to you to find out, my Sweet.

  10. #100
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, Sweet, trances within trances are fascinating.

    First we enter a trance. Then within that trance, we enter another trance, and then, within both trances we enter a third trance. And by then we are deeply entranced.

    As we sink deeper and deeper into trances, strange things happen. At about the fourth level, we lose contact with reality, and the deepest trance becomes reality for us.

    And at this level of trance, God reveals Himself to us. So we might say that the revelation in the Bible or the Koran or the Gita are vouchsafed to us at a deep level of trance.

    Also we can say that Relativity was vouchsafed to Albert Einstein at the deepest level of trance. Just as we can say Quantum Mechanics was vouchsafed to Erwin Schrödinger at the deepest level of trance.

    So we find both God and the natural world at the deepest level of trance.

    Some say we find ourselves, but I will leave that to you to find out, my Sweet.
    Not to be too derailing or trolling or flaming or off topic or whatever popular term they are using nowadays, but you seem like you're in a bit of a trance yourself.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

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