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I am alpha..hear me roar. A theory of human male behavior...

heizusan

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More traditional pack theory typically defines:

Alpha = Leader
Beta = Follower/Pack Member
Omega = Outsider/Untouchable/Floormat

- What seems to be getting called "Omega" in this thread is closer to the Lone Wolf. They *could* have been an Omega. Or they could have been an Alpha. Or they could have simply never fit into or understood normal pack dynamics. Or any other number of things that makes them shun packs.

However, I've had similar conversations around these pack dynamics (and women are not immune - they just play the alpha/beta game a little different. Less direct aggression, more subversive manipulations. Women are stereotypically the more social/feeling of the sexes, after all.)

What I've come to is that yes, everybody has a "comfort" role. The role they're most likely to fall into. But alpha tends to play into a pecking order, and all but one of the comfortable alphas will be forced into a beta role. This is why they need to be adaptable. Almost nobody can be alpha *all* of the time.

Betas are the ones who look for leadership. They want to be part of a bigger whole. But they don't want to - or can't - steer the ship, themselves.

Omegas are the ones who are so *desperate* to belong that they will do anything to please. To the point of obsequious self sacrifice (think of the wolf who eats last, in the pack. Or the guy who spends his life savings trying to impress somebody... only to be shunned, anyway.)

And lone wolfs are just that. I think most lone wolfs are in fact alphas who could not accept being a beta in their packs. I certainly was, when I was a solo act.
 

Magic Poriferan

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How's that? You don't think that alpha males potentially are so secure in their dominance that they don't have to go around attempting to exert it at every turn? Like overbearing frat boys and petty tyrants could acutally be betas with a complex?

That's just not how alphas work in any species where the word alpha is typically applied, so I think it would be stupid to use the word in that sense for humans. Why not come up with a different word?

This really isn't a scientific issue. This is a matter of semantics. It would be less confusing if you just used a different and more appropriate term to convey that meaning.
 

Thalassa

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That's just not how alphas work in any species where the word alpha is typically applied, so I think it would be stupid to use the word in that sense for humans. Why not come up with a different word?

This really isn't a scientific issue. This is a matter of semantics. It would be less confusing if you just used a different and more appropriate term to convey that meaning.

What a terribly INTP thing to say!
 

skylights

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Besides, wrapping your mind around a males way of thinking isn't too hard. Women on the other hand...yeah, PMS must be a bitch..because they have periods of pure insanity..but don't get me started on women..
[YOUTUBE="www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zb-XyXP4hk"][/YOUTUBE]
How the hell do you analyze that?

imagine,
for approximately 1-3 days:

a) you have a headache
b) your body feels "heavy"
c) your stomach is bloated
d) you have to pee more frequently
e) you get occasional stabbing deep abdominal pains
f) sometimes so badly all you can do is curl up, take prescription pain meds, and watch tv
g) and/or you have a dull, persistent lower-belly ache that makes everything uncomfortable
h) your body is especially sensitive to certain sensations
i) you get sudden cravings for weird food
j) you may have all these symptoms, some of them, more of them, or they may come and go
k) come and go on an hourly, weekly, monthly, yearly, or longer basis
m) to top it all off, you know that you are soon going to begin bleeding out of one of your lower orifaces for a week

now imagine everyone expects you to function completely normally and not "bitch about it".

and now imagine that if you do not function normally, or if you do complain about it, the opposite sex treats you as if you "lack logic" and "are crazy" and are otherwise inferior. and then there are some very lucky women who experience nothing, and men point to them as examples of why PMS "isn't real" or is "exaggerated". even those lucky women themselves do not always believe in it. seriously, my dad - a doctor - didn't really believe in PMS until one day i was curled up on the couch crying. my pain tolerance is pretty damn high, and he knew it. he's been gentle and understanding about it ever since, which i appreciate very much.

i'm really not trying to be an ass, i mean this seriously. this is how it feels to be PMSing and then to have men treat you like a pariah. just act as if the woman is physically ill for those days (because, essentially, many of us are), and you'll be steps ahead of many, many men.
 

Thalassa

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imagine,
for approximately 1-3 days:

a) you have a headache
b) your body feels "heavy"
c) your stomach is bloated
d) you have to pee more frequently
e) you get occasional stabbing deep abdominal pains
f) sometimes so badly all you can do is curl up, take prescription pain meds, and watch tv
g) and/or you have a dull, persistent lower-belly ache that makes everything uncomfortable
h) your body is especially sensitive to certain sensations
i) you get sudden cravings for weird food
j) you may have all these symptoms, some of them, more of them, or they may come and go
k) you start anticipating bleeding out of one of your lower orifaces for a week

now imagine everyone to expect you to function completely normally.

and now imagine that if you do not function normally, the opposite sex treats you as if you "lack logic" and "are crazy" and are otherwise inferior. and then there are some lucky bitches who experience nothing, and men point to them as examples of why PMS "isn't real" or is "exaggerated". seriously, my dad - a doctor - didn't really believe in PMS until one day i was curled up on the couch crying. my pain tolerance is pretty damn high, and he knew it. he's been gentle and understanding about it ever since, which i appreciate very much.

i'm really not trying to be an ass, i mean this seriously. this is how it feels to be PMSing and then to have men treat you like a pariah. just act as if the woman is physically ill for those days (because, essentially, many of us are), and you'll be steps ahead of many, many men.

+111100000000
 
T

ThatGirl

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TG said once that true alphas don't always have to run around trying to prove it, which actually does correlate to the OPs ideas of alphas being able to role shift appropriately.

Actually our theories are quite different. Most of what the OP describes as Alpha, I put into the Beta A category. Magic hates my idea because he is a Beta B. The beta who becomes indifferent and removed while still maintaining some sense of self worth (he is smrt).

The thing about animistic comparisons of people is that it isn't taking into account cognitive value, it isn't meant to. It is an observation of the natural instinctual motivations of humans in their most basic and underlying form. Which as in any other living creature, does exist, no matter how much you don't want it to.
 

FDG

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Humans aren't wolves, so these categories are bound to be objected to. Plus, people seem to play different social roles in different settings.
 
T

ThatGirl

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Right, but it is beyond "attitude". I have never in my life, seen a true alpha act like an omega, or beta. I've seen them bend, compromise, even get emotional, but never NOT alpha. And, certainly not to gain resources.
 

rav3n

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The theory about alphas, betas and omegas, doesn't bother me. I agree that these three stereotypes exist within human beings, as it relates to their most base nature and that they can flex in and out of roles when survival depends on it.

What I don't agree with is that this is solely applicable to men. It's pretty obvious which ones are which, regardless of gender, if you observe people for any length of time. No matter how hard someone tries, their base nature will manifest more often than not, displaying an observable pattern of preferred behaviour.

And I agree with TG that the alpha behaviour described in the opening post, isn't alpha A behaviour. But I disagree that alpha A's smell like cookies!
 
T

ThatGirl

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No way would I sniff your ex, no matter how many martinis were knocked back!! Sniffing, like dancing, leads to sex.

Lol! Afraid he smells like cookies? .....:whistling:

And, I agree with you about female Alphas.
 

FDG

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Right, but it is beyond "attitude". I have never in my life, seen a true alpha act like an omega, or beta. I've seen them bend, compromise, even get emotional, but never NOT alpha. And, certainly not to gain resources.

Ah, I see, then maybe I am just a bit oblivious about this specific part of human nature.
 

skylights

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FYI re wolf hierarchy

a beta is not a regular pack member kiddos. they're second in line to the alpha throne.

learn:

Beta Wolf
In The Sawtooth Pack, the position of beta wolf, or second in command to the alpha, was held by a male wolf named Matsi. Not much is written about beta wolves, but in The Sawtooth Pack, Matsi embodied all that was magical about wolves. He was a wolf that gave everything of himself for the benefit of he pack. He patrolled their territory, took care of the pups, maintained peace and order- and throughout all this, he seemed completely content not to rule. Matsi taught us that the workings of a wolf society are deeper and more complex then we will ever know. Although competition is prevalent and the drive to become the alpha can burn fiercely in the hearts of certain wolves, the good of the pack, the family, is more important then anything
 

Rasofy

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I think it's plain wrong to classify lone wolves of any specie, including ours, as alphas, betas or omegas. Lone wolves are not ranked. And, while some may not agree, they are much more likely to attract females than the betas, which makes ''omega'' a very inappropriate definition.
 

Sanctus Iacobus

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TG said once that true alphas don't always have to run around trying to prove it, which actually does correlate to the OPs ideas of alphas being able to role shift appropriately.

This has been my experience. If anything, the responsibilities of being a natural leader are something I've tried to escape in one way or another. It gets exhausting being the first to initiate and do everything all the time, which is my main motivation for changing roles. It's not really a competition at all... if anything I have to fight people's expectations so I won't always be the one taking that role. Teach a man to fish, I guess. I want other people to learn to initiate, take healthy risks, and learn. Sometimes I need time alone and I'm not prepared to be the leader, but the aura is something that a person's consciousness caries with you and people sub-consciously recognize and follow it. Causes a lot of confusion and sometimes hurt feelings. Oy vey.

So, not only is it not really a competition, but people should value their place for what it is. Everything has pros and cons.

edit: also, I agree with ThatGirl, it is not a behavior. It is who a person is. To say it is a behavior would imply that it is something a person becomes, which would already be working against the flow of social group mentality. I can personally attest to the fact that this is true, because I do it on purpose when I don't want people to look to me. In a predictable manner, they usually then do the opposite and someone else becomes the recognized most leading.
 

miss fortune

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so women are hard to comprehend? :huh: last I checked we're still human beings who live in the same society as you and have brains and educations and such, but if you're going to go and be confused by such stupid things I think I'll just clarify humanity into 4 categories for you to make this easy enough for you to comprehend:

assholes
doormats
bitches
hos

:coffee:

hopefully that makes it easy enough for even you
 

wolfy

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Mick Jagger - Lucky In Love

Alpha, beta, omega... nice little concept for teens. Seems to me there comes a time to step out from bullshit like that and do your own thing. There's always going to be clowns that want to play like that, so you need to be adaptable.

That's the real power to develop. Adaptability.
Luck in love, that's where it's really at.


I'm half talking to myself here!
 

man

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A+ theory

i like the part where no women
 
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