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  1. #1
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Default Agree? Disagree? Or how do you interpret this?

    "When someone gives advice, I am beneath them. When someone gives help without my appointment, I am an opponent. When someone gives suggestions of which I can pleasantly refuse, I am their friend."

    Thoughts? Do you feel it's type related? Find it not to be true? Any other thoughts? I'd like know what you think about this. So say whatever you want.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Damn, an hour and no one has bothered to post. I've decided I really suck at making threads. It doesn't matter what forum I do it in.

  3. #3
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    maybe it's your wording...idk but are you're saying that if someone gives you advice they think they are better than you? and if they help without your appointment? you mean help without your having to ask? they're your opponent? i don't follow.. :/ why are they that? and friends give each other suggestions rather than advice?

    well hmm...no.. i don't feel that way really. i don't like unsolicited advice but it won't piss me off too much if it's helpful and i respect the person...and no i don't consider someone my opponent when they help me with something but i'm quite sure i'm misreading you on that one...do you mean your equal?

    i think interaction style is type related but other than that i'm not sure what you mean...i'm sorry your only response was so completely not helpful....maybe clarify a bit?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #4
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
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    What is it and who wrote it?
    Fe | Ni | Se | Ti ... 3w4 ... Lawful Neutral ... Johari -Nohari

  5. #5
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    Well, what exactly is the difference between advice and suggestions then? Is it just the way the advice/suggestion giver responds if it's refused? Does the helper need to make it clear that s/he realizes s/he may be off base and the listener is free to take it or leave it?

    I agree that helping/advising someone can be done with be done with a condescending attitude of "I know better than you and it doesn't matter what you think" or a more humble attitude that realizes you don't know everything and maintains an openness to what the person has to say about your ideas. But I wouldn't say having the more humble attitude means you are not offering advice. If you're recommending a particular course of action to someone, then by definition that is advice.

  6. #6
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blankpages View Post
    Well, what exactly is the difference between advice and suggestions then?.
    exactly. and what does "giving help" mean exactly? acting without your knowledge to help you in some way, or what?
    -end of thread-

  7. #7
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    maybe it's your wording...idk but are you're saying that if someone gives you advice they think they are better than you? and if they help without your appointment? you mean help without your having to ask? they're your opponent? i don't follow.. :/ why are they that? and friends give each other suggestions rather than advice?

    well hmm...no.. i don't feel that way really. i don't like unsolicited advice but it won't piss me off too much if it's helpful and i respect the person...and no i don't consider someone my opponent when they help me with something but i'm quite sure i'm misreading you on that one...do you mean your equal?

    i think interaction style is type related but other than that i'm not sure what you mean...i'm sorry your only response was so completely not helpful....maybe clarify a bit?
    Uhh, first this isn't what I think, but I found it interesting; it posed questions that I had to answer individually and I wanted to see how other do so and what conclusions they have reached themselves. Second, contrary to forum atmosphere (I blame MBTI) not every thread is about someone trying to shove a belief down your throat; this is just a discussion where there's no right interpretation or correctness to what this is supposed to mean and has nothing to do with what I think you should think. Third, where you disagree I want you to come up with your own definitions or understanding of the questions this poses for you. If there's anything I have gotten out of Jungian types is that there are many differing interpretations and perspectives that people have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
    What is it and who wrote it?
    Technically, I did, but I was synthesizing my thoughts into an idea that I could use to see what our people thought independently (not just simply agreeing or disagreeing) about the subject (or even what they determine the subject to be ).

    Quote Originally Posted by blankpages View Post
    Well, what exactly is the difference between advice and suggestions then? Is it just the way the advice/suggestion giver responds if it's refused? Does the helper need to make it clear that s/he realizes s/he may be off base and the listener is free to take it or leave it?

    I agree that helping/advising someone can be done with be done with a condescending attitude of "I know better than you and it doesn't matter what you think" or a more humble attitude that realizes you don't know everything and maintains an openness to what the person has to say about your ideas. But I wouldn't say having the more humble attitude means you are not offering advice. If you're recommending a particular course of action to someone, then by definition that is advice.
    It's not about agreeing or disagreeing or being right or wrong. This isn't a proposition for what's logically consistent that you refute or not because nothing anyone says as truth relating to another person's behavior or thoughts is going to always universally be the case; if it were, we would all be lifeless rocks. I would love to hear your perspective on what it means and why though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    exactly. and what does "giving help" mean exactly? acting without your knowledge to help you in some way, or what?
    Please answer your own questions first before expecting others to; it's rude. I don't care how logically you can decipher a true-false statement based on individually accepted and defined premises. That's for your ego and I'm not interested in that.

  8. #8
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    ....wtf? ok then.
    -end of thread-

  9. #9
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    It's not about agreeing or disagreeing or being right or wrong. This isn't a proposition for what's logically consistent that you refute or not because nothing anyone says as truth relating to another person's behavior or thoughts is going to always universally be the case; if it were, we would all be lifeless rocks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    Please answer your own questions first before expecting others to; it's rude. I don't care how logically you can decipher a true-false statement based on individually accepted and defined premises. That's for your ego and I'm not interested in that.
    So you want to know if people find the statement true or not ("Thoughts? Do you feel it's type related? Find it not to be true?"), but it's rude and egotistical to try to define what it is meant by it so we can decide? I see.

  10. #10
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    As far my understanding of the opening quote:

    When someone gives advice, I am beneath them.
    If someone is giving advice, it means they think they know more than you enough to give said advice -- they are the teacher, and you are the student. You are "under" them.

    When someone gives help without my appointment, I am an opponent.
    I'm not sure why you used the word "opponent." It doesn't seem to fit with the first part of the sentence. I can't parse it.

    When someone gives suggestions of which I can pleasantly refuse, I am their friend.
    If they are merely suggesting, and you have the option to refuse, then you are equals... just like friends are equals.

    As for this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    Please answer your own questions first before expecting others to; it's rude. I don't care how logically you can decipher a true-false statement based on individually accepted and defined premises. That's for your ego and I'm not interested in that.
    Let's see.

    You complained after an hour because no one had responded.

    Then people did respond and say they just really had no idea what you were asking. (It's pretty clear they felt bad that no one had responded, and they wanted you to feel included.)

    When you finally responded to those comments, you respond rudely to at least one person's asking for clarification.

    In that very same post, though, you said to another person, "If there's anything I have gotten out of Jungian types is that there are many differing interpretations and perspectives that people have."

    Do you seriously believe that? If so, you need to accept that some types will ask for clarification for good reason, to help and communicate, not for reasons of "ego." At the very least, it won't help you get the sort of interaction you were craving in your second post.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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