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Homeschooling: yes or no?

Are you in favor of homeschooling?


  • Total voters
    49

Eileen

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I think small classes are a must, they have restricted infant class sizes here to 30 to a teacher.

But I think 30, 4 an 5 year olds to one teacher is way to high.


THIRTY! infants to ONE teacher!?

Surely you are mistaken. There is no way that one or even two people could care for that many infants in one setting. My best friend is a preschool teacher and I think he had eight in his room.


Thirty kids is way too many no matter what the age, though. You can't give the individual kids what they need if you're up to your ears in 'em.
 

Tigerlily

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THIRTY! infants to ONE teacher!?

Surely you are mistaken. There is no way that one or even two people could care for that many infants in one setting. My best friend is a preschool teacher and I think he had eight in his room.


Thirty kids is way too many no matter what the age, though. You can't give the individual kids what they need if you're up to your ears in 'em.
Aren't you a teacher?
 

Geoff

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I went through my whole school career with that sort of ratio. Far as I can remember, even at age 4 or 5.

Highest was probably about 40-45. Meant the teacher had to be quite restrictive with teaching types (this would be high streamed science stuff eg advanced maths)
 

Eileen

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What are your thoughts on homeschooling?

Like cafe, I think people should have options about how to educate their children, and not all children NEED the same things in a learning environment. I also tend to think that parents often have more influence on what a child gets out of their education than teachers do anyway. Learning isn't something that should just happen under a teacher's eye at school, and if parents aren't taking an active role in their children's educations (stressing importance, having regular conversations about it, providing a space for homework to happen, encouraging intellectual interests, etc), then a lot of my efforts are wasted.

For the most part, regardless of the route you choose for education, you get the education that you take. I object to the notion that teachers are pouring information into students' brains. This notion is perpetuated by high-stakes testing situations and lots of other things, probably, and the public school system's accidental dissemination of this notion is probably the worst thing it does. If a child does not actively engage and inquire, what he learns will be minimal at best. That will be the case REGARDLESS of the system through which he gets his education.

It's really tough. I believe what I say about the importance of parent involvement, but I teach kids in the lower SES whose parents work a couple of jobs and are never around. These families really don't have the luxury of educational options and it's hard for the parents to provide the domestic structure necessary for maximizing any kind of education.
 

Eileen

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I went through my whole school career with that sort of ratio. Far as I can remember, even at age 4 or 5.

Highest was probably about 40-45. Meant the teacher had to be quite restrictive with teaching types (this would be high streamed science stuff eg advanced maths)


My class sizes tend to be around 20 kids--often fewer. We're supposed to be capped at 32. I know of large classes, but they never get that big. I wouldn't be able to fit that many kids in my room. What a nightmare.
 

Falcarius

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I don't endorse homeschooling, in the ideal world I don't think anyone should be homeschooled. But, I think the child and their parents should be able to have the choice.
 

Tigerlily

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When I was in school, I used to wish my mom would homeschool me.

Socialization? Plenty of better ways to socialize than in school--all that wasted time with half-hearted chit-chat and notes back and forth in class because you're so bored your brain is about to burst. Silly immature games of gossip and who-hates-whom that have no significance outside of the strange subculture of jr. high and high school.

Learning? I would have learned much more if I could have been left alone to read the books myself. Teachers trying to jerk your thoughts around this way and that, not enough time to let the details sink in and thoroughly explore a real idea because half the class has the attention span of an excited gnat (to steal Lee's metaphor). Long after I graduated, when I learned that ISS was really just the opportunity to sit alone and read and write all day (what heaven!), I became rather bitter about the fact that the "bad" students got the good school and the "good" students had to keep going to the crap classes full of distracting other students who won't shut up.

I'd considered that maybe all those ideas were the product of my angsty teenage brain and perhaps public school is much better than I'd imagined. After teaching 10th and 11th grade English for 8 months, I'm convinced I was right after all. It's very very difficult to teach a prescribed curriculum to a room full of 30 different abilities, interests, and motivations. I don't see how it can possibly be ideal either for the more advanced students or for the ones who fall behind.

Unless my children (if I have any) turn out to be very opposed to the idea, I think they'd benefit more from homeschooling than from being run through the public school system.
Thank you. I love everything that you've said here. :yes:

I have another question. Why do teachers give homework? Do teachers expect the parents to help with homework? I ask because our daughters teacher last year preferred that I didn't help. She said it was "her" homework not mine. This year her teacher is sending homework home for the entire family to complete. :huh:
 

Eileen

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Thank you. I love everything that you've said here. :yes:

I have another question. Why do teachers give homework? Do teachers expect the parents to help with homework? I ask because our daughters teacher last year preferred that I didn't help. She said it was "her" homework not mine. This year her teacher is sending homework home for the entire family to complete. :huh:


Homework should be practice on concepts learned in class. It should be (in my opinion) completed by the student, though I don't see anything wrong with a parent tutoring his or her own child. I'm not sure about this homework for the family business. That seems pretty unreasonable to me.

Homework also needs to be really relevant. If it isn't reinforcing real skills (I've heard of some real bullshit being assigned, especially for younger kids), I don't see the point.
 

mooky

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THIRTY! infants to ONE teacher!?

Surely you are mistaken. There is no way that one or even two people could care for that many infants in one setting. My best friend is a preschool teacher and I think he had eight in his room.


Thirty kids is way too many no matter what the age, though. You can't give the individual kids what they need if you're up to your ears in 'em.

I don't know how to do a link in this so i'll cut and paste the legistation in

Limit on infant class sizes
3. - (1) This regulation has effect for limiting class sizes for infant classes at schools in England for the purposes of section 1 of the 1998 Act.

(2) No infant class at such a school shall contain more than 30 pupils while an ordinary teaching session is conducted by a single qualified teacher.

(3) Where an ordinary teaching session in the case of any such class is conducted by more than one qualified teacher, paragraph (2) shall be taken to prohibit the class from containing more than 30 pupils for every one of those teachers.


Its a sad fact that dispite the schools eforts to keep class sizes small the LEA (Local Education Authority) can force the schol to admit 30 pupils to one teacher, and they can do nothing about it.
The school my 2 go to isn't to bad, they normally have a teaching assistant, and i'd say my daughters class was about 20; but thats in a big room with another class and nursery kids, so dispite having seperate areas it can get very chaotic in there.
My son who's 6/7 has a class of 26.
 

Ivy

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Wow. I think here the law is WAY different. For infants (babies, right? I think up to the age of 2, with regards to this law) the ratio is something like 1:3 or 1:4, it goes up slightly for 2, 3, and 4 year olds, and then school-age kids it's the size of a classroom (1:20? I'm not sure what the limits are here, but my daughter's school caps class size at 14). I know that when I was a childcare provider there was some kind of math about how many children of different ages, including my own, I could care for at one time. And I also know that I never even came close to that limit because it was higher than my own personal limit.
 

mooky

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I assume that by infants they mean school childeren that are not compulsery, so .........3 to 5 year olds.
Child minders have a 1:5 ratio, I think.


Childminders can be registered to care for up to six children, the number they are registered for includes their own children. Of these children only three can be under the age of five
 
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Randomnity

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Hmm homeschooling.

I'm going to take the unpopular opinion and say that it can be really bad in some cases. I realize it's a small sample and I'm not suggesting it would happen for most people, but all 3 of the kids I knew growing up who were homeschooled are now complete social retards who didn't bother with secondary education and are now working crappy jobs as a result. Most homeschooling advocates I've heard only talk about the absolute best-case, perfect parents scenario. If the parents aren't 100% committed, informed, intelligent, and reasonable, it could easily be a disaster.

I will admit, though, that I'm somewhat biased, having been "homeschooled" for 6 months in middle school, learning absolutely nothing and almost being forced to stay behind a year as a result. I can only imagine where I'd be if my parents had homeschooled me for my entire life (as my mom wanted - my dad wouldn't let her).

And, I fully agree that when done properly homeschooling can be as good or better than public schools. It's just that, maybe I've been hanging out with radical people, but I've heard from many the attitude that "public school is terrible and you're a better parent if you homeschool"....regardless of how good you are at it. And I just don't agree with that.
 

Anonymous

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At this time, I'm against it. I know that there can be lots of good homeschooling experiences, sure. Great ones, even. But I have a feeling that there's just as many more poor ones. I was homeschooled in a fundamentalist home up until I was 12, and it was done in a very literal sense of the term. Once I could read, I was basically handed some textbooks every year and went through them at my own pace. It didn't take me long to figure out how to slack off, and I really ended up learning hardly anything. Most of the other families which mine knew (they were all in a rather tight little fundamentalist circle) homeschooled as well, and some of their experiences seemed even worse and more sheltered than mine. I'm not saying that it was crippling, but that's certainly not the kind of basis that a person wants to start a successful life on.

Now I know, this isn't the case across the board. Ivy presents a perfect example of the other side of homeschooling. But the fact remains that I and an entire circle of children in other families were allowed to go through very sheltered educational process under extreme dogma, and I'm against that. So yes, I'm opposed to the current homeschooling system that is in place. I think there needs to be more regulation for that sort of thing.
 

Ivy

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Hmm homeschooling.

I'm going to take the unpopular opinion and say that it can be really bad in some cases. I realize it's a small sample and I'm not suggesting it would happen for most people, but all 3 of the kids I knew growing up who were homeschooled are now complete social retards who didn't bother with secondary education and are now working crappy jobs as a result. Most homeschooling advocates I've heard only talk about the absolute best-case, perfect parents scenario. If the parents aren't 100% committed, informed, intelligent, and reasonable, it could easily be a disaster. And what happens in high school, when the child could surpass the parent in knowledge of some areas?

I will admit, though, that I'm somewhat biased, having been "homeschooled" for 6 months in middle school, learning absolutely nothing and almost being forced to stay behind a year as a result. I can only imagine where I'd be if my parents had homeschooled me for my entire life (as my mom wanted - my dad wouldn't let her).

And, I fully agree that when done properly homeschooling can be as good or better than public schools. It's just that, maybe I've been hanging out with radical people, but I've heard from many the attitude that "public school is terrible and you're a better parent if you homeschool"....regardless of how good you are at it. And I just don't agree with that.

I actually agree with you on all points, but let me show you why I still support homeschooling in general:

Hmm public schooling.

I'm going to take the unpopular opinion and say that it can be really bad in some cases. I realize it's a small sample and I'm not suggesting it would happen for most people, but a great many of the 3-500 kids I knew growing up who were public schooled are now complete social retards who didn't bother with secondary education and are now working crappy jobs as a result. Most public schooling advocates I've heard only talk about the absolute best-case, perfect schools/teachers scenario. If the teachers aren't 100% committed, informed, intelligent, and reasonable, it could easily be a disaster. And what happens in high school, when the child could surpass the teacher in knowledge of some areas?

I will admit, though, that I'm somewhat biased, having been "public schooled" for 6 months in middle school, learning absolutely nothing and almost being forced to go to a therapist as a result. I can only imagine where I'd be if my parents had chosen public schools for me for my entire life.

And, I fully agree that when done properly public schooling can be as good or better than home schools. It's just that, maybe I've been hanging out with radical people, but I've heard from many the attitude that "homeschool is terrible and you're a better parent if you choose public school"....regardless of how good you are at it. And I just don't agree with that.
 

Grayscale

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i have yet to meet someone who was homeschooled that seemed to gain more (from focused education) than lost. a big part of growing up is not only growing accustomed to the world, but learning how you relate to it... difficult to do that when you're sheltered from your peers.

there's more to education than reading, writing, math, science... and that's the stuff you won't learn in homeschool.
 

Ivy

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i have yet to meet someone who was homeschooled that seemed to gain more (from focused education) than lost. a big part of growing up is not only growing accustomed to the world, but learning how you relate to it... difficult to do that when you're sheltered from your peers.

This is one of the things that bugs me most in this debate. Homeschooling != being sheltered from your peers. Especially now that so many kids are being homeschooled and networks are forming. Sure, they're not divided into classes with only their exact age cohorts, but IMO that's not necessary for peer socialization.

Grayscale said:
there's more to education than reading, writing, math, science... and that's the stuff you won't learn in homeschool.

Really? What are those things? I'd be happy to tell you how my siblings and I learned them in home school.
 
O

Oberon

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i have yet to meet someone who was homeschooled that seemed to gain more (from focused education) than lost. a big part of growing up is not only growing accustomed to the world, but learning how you relate to it... difficult to do that when you're sheltered from your peers.

there's more to education than reading, writing, math, science... and that's the stuff you won't learn in homeschool.

My wife and I were concerned about that, too. So, once a week we follow our kids into the bathroom, rough them up, threaten them, steal their lunch money, curse at them, and offer them drugs, and that seems to take care of it. :D

Honestly, if you think homeschooling means sheltering children from their peers, you haven't seen the larger world of homeschooling. My kids have far more social engagements than I do.
 
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