• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

you can't understand depression unless you've been depressed

CzeCze

RETIRED
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
8,975
MBTI Type
GONE
This reminds me of an article (or actually several) on how to speak with people who are grieving or have had gotten bad news. Don't say "I know how you feel" - sometimes at all - because even if you have gone through something similar (same disease, loss of child, traumatic event) you don't know exactly how *that* person feels.

I think after a while it becomes splitting hairs (i remember that long serpent's tail of a thread on the difference between 'sympathy' and 'empathy'). For individuals I am more likely to ask them to tell me how they feel and be more of a listening source.

On a more serious note, I think the desire to have someone know exactly how you feel is sometimes a hindrance in therapy and counseling. Therapists are not meant to have experienced everything you have, they are meant to be screened and licensed to give you tools to deal with your healing process. While direct empathy or shared experience gives additional insight, bonding and understanding - they aren't necessary to correctly diagnosis the issues and how to resolve them - so I hope that doesn't block anyone's ability to trust therapist or accept and really try therapy. The only issue I see is if the therapist is completely clueless to the true nature of the beast, but that's not purely an issue of experience or empathy (for instance Freud didn't know sh*t about women but he lived in old school sexist times where being a misogynist was seen as sign of education :p)

I've experienced anxiety, OCD behavior (including mantras and all that good stuff), and depression, however never been diagnosed so can't really say whether how what I have experienced is similar to clinical cases or not. However, my own experiences help me imagine and gain a level of understanding to what others may be experiencing that may be totally foreign to people who have never experienced these things. I wouldn't presume to say "i know exactly what you are feeling and therefore will tell you how to fix it" however.
 

prplchknz

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
34,397
MBTI Type
yupp
I really dont think you can. I don't mean exactly either, I mean you can maybe begin to comprehend how much it sucks. But I dont know what it's like to have my best friend die so I wouldn't understand that, I know it would suck. But for me fully comprehend it I can't.
 

guesswho

Active member
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
1,977
MBTI Type
ENTP
Yes, you are right.

You can understand depression without experiencing it, but in order to fully "understand" what it means you must experience it.
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
Enneagram
8w9
I've been going through a fairly bad bout since I was laid off in May.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think excessive weight is put on subjective experience and it hinders the ability for people to help one another.

You don't have to have been depressed to have a good enough idea of what depression is like to be understanding and give help. What does it matter if a person doesn't know exactly how it felt to you?
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
There is a major difference between understanding and helping, anyone can learn the skills to help, but someone who hasn't lived through it cannot read a book to gain true understanding, unless experienced first hand it will remain theoretical.

Someone with mental issues generally won't go to see a psych who has lived that same issue, empathy does not imply being able to help, they go to someone who has learnt the skills to help.
 

Lightyear

New member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
899
I think the problem I have with this whole "You can't really understand another person's pain" notion is that it gives me the mental image of many isolated islands of pain that can't reach out to and connect with each other. That seems horrible. I wouldn't walk up to a person in pain and tell them that I understand exactly how they are feeling but I can certainly listen.
 

Nijntje

Warflower
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
3,130
MBTI Type
CRZY
Enneagram
4w5
I agree. I don't understand it. I don't understand how people can lack the will to fix it. I just know that the chemistry in their minds is preventing them from being able to help themselves and for me, it's a terrifying concept. Seems like a prison.

It is a prison.

You guys realise there is more than one type of depression right? Depression characterised by serotonin dysfunction associated with chronic stress and anxiety (and HPA axis hyper-activity) compared with dopaminergic deficiency, increased serotonin and hypo-activity of the HPA axis. Of course there are other neurotransmitters associated with mood disorders, including the rest of the monoamines, the cholinergics etc, so there are many more possibilities.

So having a depression diagnosis wouldn't necessarily translate into knowing how others with depression may feel.

I agree with this so much. I stuggle with bipolar and clinical depression, I can RELATE to prpl, but i dont truly understand as she may have a different kind of depression to me, same as DB, his depression (i'm taking a liberty so correct me if im wrong), seem to be related to a specific thing, rather than a for-no-reason clinical style, so i dont know what he's going through.

All i know is that some days it's all i can do to get out of bed. I dont want to die, but i dont see the point in living. Why do anything if fundamentally you cant find any reason for it? Why bother when you are simply a hollow shell of who you used to be, and cant even find the point or reason to get that person back?
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
All i know is that some days it's all i can do to get out of bed. I dont want to die, but i dont see the point in living. Why do anything if fundamentally you cant find any reason for it? Why bother when you are simply a hollow shell of who you used to be, and cant even find the point or reason to get that person back?

yeah. shitty, shitty, shitty feeling. like life is drained of color.

i actually pulled myself out of minor depression sort of accidentally by getting to the point of realizing i completely didn't give a shit what i did, so i might as well do anything, so i might as well at least please other people if i can't please myself. so i started doing things... and eventually started caring again, little by little. i'm still not completely back, but it's better. i feel like i got lucky, accidentally pulling myself out of that hole.

but it was weird, when i was there. i felt disconnected from the world. like everything was zooming on by me and i was just lost. i thought about death some. like, hey, i wonder what's over the border. i wouldn't call it suicidal, even though technically i suppose it would be, but it was just like death was on par with all other possibilities. like it was just another option, not something totally taboo.


:shrug:
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
We can't understand Clinical Depression anymore than we can understand Schizophrenia.

But we do understand that although the thoughts of schizophrenics are out of touch with reality, their emotions remain in touch with reality.

And conversely, we understand that although the emotiions of the clinically depressed are out of touch with reality, their thoughts remain in touch with reality.
 

Agent Jelly

New member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
344
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
8w7
I don't think anyone truly understands what anyone else feels or is going through. Sure we all try to relate so that person doesn't feel alone, but in the end we all are in our own shoes. Whenever someone is coming to me about how they feel, I listen and I always say. "I can't say I know how hard this is for you, but in my life I went through this and it was hard. So I can only imagine what you're going through, and I feel for you". Usually that doesn't make people feel as alienated. I myself HAVE had a pretty hard life up until a year ago and I would say the most alienating things I heard were, " I know how you feel" coming from people who had NO idea what I went through, or have not gone through anything the extent I did. "I'm sorry", or they completely minimized my life :| So I try really hard to treat others as I want to be treated
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
Empathy and Sympathy

I don't think anyone truly understands what anyone else feels or is going through.

The whole point of empathy is not to feel what you are going through but to show we understand what you are experiencing.

Whereas the whole point of sympathy is to feel the same as.

Sympathy is natural but empathy is uniquely helpful.
 

Octarine

The Eighth Colour
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
1,351
MBTI Type
Aeon
Enneagram
10w
Instinctual Variant
so
And conversely, we understand that although the emotiions of the clinically depressed are out of touch with reality, their thoughts remain in touch with reality.

Given the premise of CBT and other therapies, I think that is a minority view...
 
Top