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  1. #11
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    I'd like to post some suggestions but I'm a little concerned about offending. May I speak my mind, entropie?

  2. #12
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    Some people don't introvert enough and may have to grow out of it. Others are crazy like this ExTJ I know and haven't even grown out of it in their late 40's.

    IRL I'm actually extremely good about thinking before I speak (someone just complimented me on this trait last night, that I think a lot before it comes out of my mouth) but I haven't always been that way. I sometimes wonder if being on-line and writing and chatting so much helps with that, because I'm still "extroverting" but also thinking in a way before it comes out of my mouth.

    I also have had a lot of therapy and take meds which I think help me to be less reactive.

    It's a combination of things but I used to be fairly brutal and just "open mouth, insert foot" and now people think I'm more mature, and at my age I should be, though.

  3. #13
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    I still have to talk through things though. That's why my posts sometimes are half-cocked, and like the other night when I was chatting with my ISFJ friend I was just like saying all of this stuff and only realized later where I was really going with it.

    It is extroverted to have to "talk through things."

    But it's immature to just say brutal things all the time without thinking. Or maybe an indication of some kind of chemical imbalance.

  4. #14

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    I don't think much before I speak, it interferes with the rhythm. I tend to adjust as I go.

    I think your strategies are fine. It sounds like you are taking too much of the responsibility for follow through though. Implement a flow chart like system with feedback and post it on the kitchen wall. Something like that.

  5. #15
    Senior Member knight's Avatar
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    guilty here

  6. #16
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    I'd like to post some suggestions but I'm a little concerned about offending. May I speak my mind, entropie?
    Please

    ----

    Thanks for all ya responses so far, I'll write a reply once I am finished with that other work here *vomits* Cant remember when I had the last real weekend
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #17
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    I have difficulty thinking about what i am going to say befor i open my mouth.

    I remember being really surprised when someone asked me why i didn't think befor i spoke as a teen.
    I said "wow do people usually do that?".

    I then made a concerted effort to think things befor i said them aloud. Results were a little skeewiff...
    I would start a sentance by saying "I said..." when it was actually the first time speaking.
    E.g scenario 1,
    person asks me "what would you like to do today"
    Me ...thinks for a moment then... "I said... i would like to go to mars"
    Or scenario 2,
    bump into someone in the street
    Me "I said...hi, how are you, havn't seen you in at least lemon pie"

    Was a bit strange and i gave it up for a while.
    I have improved techniques over time but they do require effort and are not infallable especially if i am emotionally charged.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  8. #18
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Hehe, well it aint that easy with my girlfriend. That's the reason too why I'ld type her an introvert. When she has crazy ideas, she most often thought them thru already and made an unrealistical plan to accomplish them. When I then say "I dont listen" she'd be kinda pissed.

    The problem are those emotional outbursts. She's like a 5 year old at times and throws things out of anger into the corner. If we everytime ended our relationship when she said it, we would have been seprated over 1000 times. And the other thing is when she says something without paying respect to how you feel about it, when she's just impolite. Then she and me get into a relation in which I am like her daddy and that's really creepy.
    Nicely done. You understand your dynamic.

    The questions to ask yourself are:
    • How significant are her crazy plans to her life, your relationship and you?
    • If her plans aren't significant to one of the three, then does it matter if she implements them?
    • Also, if her plans are only significant to her life, isn't she responsible for herself?


    What I'm trying to get across is that she is not you or an extension of you. And if you never let her make mistakes, then she never learns, growing to resent you much like father/daughter during teenage years and then rebelling. It also sounds like she's looking for your respect, validation and support before proceeding with her plans, much like father/daughter.

    What was her relationship like with her father?


    Well I am together with her for 6 years so I am used to it and basically do it like your friend, handle with care. But in situations when I am stressed, like atm, when I have a lot of work to do, I become very sensitive and a controlling tyran. Then I get into troubles with her attitude.

    I am at the point in which I ask myself if its me who is the problem because I am so stressed at the moment, or if its her who just is silly or if we both should work a bit on us, you know ? I tend to go with the last option
    Sounds like it's a bit of both of your problems. You know your side so I'm going to role play her side. Imagine being treated with kid gloves normally and then, suddenly being treated in a different way. Considering the father/daughter dynamic, she's going to act out like a spoiled child by throwing tantrums.

    As a suggestion, slowly remove the kid gloves and start grooming her for adulthood. This way, when you're stressed, you have an adult partner you can rely on to help shoulder the relationship responsibilities.

  9. #19
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    I’m leaning in the same direction that Jenaphor is headed. It sounds like your girlfriend is used to being treated like a little princess or a daughter or whatever. That’s fine when you have the time to indulge her, but there are times when you need her to stand more on her own and she resents that. It sounds like that just brings on more tantrums and willful behavior.

    I had a relationship like this with my first wife. She considered herself a high-maintenance, pampered litte princess, considered it part of her charms, and resented any efforts to make her change. She didn’t engage in insensitive extraversion and tantrums to get attention, like your girlfriend; instead, my ex tended to be more passive-aggressive in her maneuvering. Still, it was enough of a problem that I divorced her over it. After 10 years of marital pampering, my workplace was demanding more of my attention and I needed my ex to be a little more independent and grow up a bit. But she fought any attempts on my part to change her. In her opinion, I had knowingly married a high-maintenance little princess and it showed a lack of respect on my part to suddenly want to change her into someone else (or to even think that I had the right to change her).

    She was no dummy, by the way. She had two Masters degrees (I only had a B.A.) and was considered accomplished and a hard worker in her field. But at the end of the day she felt it was her right (and even part of what made her attractive and fun to be around) to put her feet up and play the little princess. And when push came to shove, she preferred to hang onto that persona rather than to hang onto me. Even a year of marriage counseling didn’t help. She just jerked around the counselor the way she jerked me around. If people don’t want to change, you can’t make them change.

    I’ll stop there. I don’t want to make this thread about my ex. I haven’t even thought about her in years. I just figured I would present a picture of a certain type of "entitlement mentality" that you sometimes run into in partners and you can determine for yourself whether it relates at all to your current situation.

  10. #20
    Anew Leaf
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    First - I love your Emma quote . Such a Fi thing to have btw, Mr. Fe.

    Second - I remember you saying that your girlfriend is an INFP, so I will go from this viewpoint in my response to you. Please let me know if this isn't right.


    I am at the point in which I ask myself if its me who is the problem because I am so stressed at the moment, or if its her who just is silly or if we both should work a bit on us, you know ? I tend to go with the last option
    Relationships are easy when life is easy. The true tests come when someone/both are stressed, having problems, etc. If two people can't roll with each other when the going gets tough, then what is the point? You both need to take the bad with the good. So you may need to decide on your own if this is what you want, can deal with, etc.

    The problem are those emotional outbursts. She's like a 5 year old at times and throws things out of anger into the corner. If we everytime ended our relationship when she said it, we would have been seprated over 1000 times. And the other thing is when she says something without paying respect to how you feel about it, when she's just impolite. Then she and me get into a relation in which I am like her daddy and that's really creepy.
    From what I have read here, she strikes me as being rather immature/young... Or you are viewing her that way. (I say this simply because I can only see your viewpoint.)

    It is a red flag if you are in a relationship and you have a fight and immediately someone reaches for the Break-up/Divorce button. Both parties need to be mature enough to have conflict without going to that extreme.

    Still here's a question: imagine your partner regulary saying something without thinking. Since you are someone who usually tries to think before speaking, you always take your partner serious. So tho he or she is someone who in every second sentence says something without thinking, you do not take only every second sentence serious but every single one.
    This is a tough one. As an INFP when I am stressed I tend to grab my Te mode more. Sometimes I don't even realize I am being prickly until it's too late, and I have gone and upset someone. I am not proud of this and I wish I didn't do this, but here we are.

    I've observed my friends' relationship (ENTP/INTJ) and she is frequently stepping on his feelings because he is usually in Ne/Fe mode with her, and she is usually in Te mode.

    Well here's my question: how to get people like that a bit more thoughtful. I basically have two strategies: the first one is that I tend to repeat to my partner the things I found hurtful. You have to be careful when doing that so you dont appear too needy or that your emotions are hurt or anything like that. It's more a repetition to remind the partner of what went wrong and you didnt like. Of course you cant use that very often cause at some point, partner will just be pissed
    I am not sure people can become signifigantly more thoughtful without serious inner reflection and study. For myself, I needed a big chunk of time to myself to grow on my own and work on myself.

    I think it is important to communicate what you need from a partner. If she is saying something that is hurtful, then she needs to know that. I may be (very) embarrassed that I said something hurtful to my guy, but ultimately I would rather know so it can be addressed and hopefully dealt with immediately... Then find out months later that he is still upset over something.

    I hope there is something here that can help you out... I feel like I wasn't particularly positive overall.

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