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Extroversion = Shallowness?

JustDave

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My belief is extroverts tend to define themselves through relationships and in an attempt to maintain those relationships they may be quick to change their beliefs, positions, opinions, etc leading to the appearance of shallowness.
 

pure_mercury

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My belief is extroverts tend to define themselves through relationships and in an attempt to maintain those relationships they may be quick to change their beliefs, positions, opinions, etc leading to the appearance of shallowness.

I don't think that is true. Many of the extroverts that I know (myself included) also tend to be amongst the most individualistic and stubborn people, as well.
 

alcea rosea

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Is extroversion shallow?

That is as bad generalization as any generalization.
Let's say 60-70% of people are extroverts.
Then 60-70% of people are shallow.
I don't buy it.

What is shallow anyway?
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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Overall I don't think this has to do with shallowness as much as introverts misunderstanding extraverts. Furthermore I believe that extraverts, overall, have a better understanding of introverts than vice versa. A majority of extraverts actually realize and try to see the differences among people*, while introverts are more likely to project themselves onto other people. ExxP's are naturally perceptive of what is going on around them and ExFJ's are very people oriented in nature. Introverts by contrast tend to be more self oriented (being internally focused) and can fall into a trap of projecting more easily.


* I have to make a disclaimer about ExTJ's because most of them really, really do not understand people at all. I can't tell if they're projecting or if they just don't care. Either way ExTJ's are the worst at understanding others. The other exception is INFJ's who are exceptionally good at understanding persons especially when it comes to reading their emotional state.
 

Seanan

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Furthermore I believe that extraverts, overall, have a better understanding of introverts than vice versa.

Hmmm.... have to disagree on that one:

Extrovert says XYZ to introvert in passing... leaves introvert thinking WTF did that mean?

Introvert asks extrovert the meaning, extrovert thinks WTF is the big deal anyway?

Have seen that played out too many times to ignore.
 

JustDave

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Furthermore I believe that extraverts, overall, have a better understanding of introverts than vice versa.

Hmmm.... have to disagree on that one:

Extrovert says XYZ to introvert in passing... leaves introvert thinking WTF did that mean?

Introvert asks extrovert the meaning, extrovert thinks WTF is the big deal anyway?

Have seen that played out too many times to ignore.

That reminds me of the joke:

Two introverts meet each other and one says to the other: you're okay but how am I?

Actually I think it was originally: two psychics meet ...
 

JustDave

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Perhaps the answer is a very simple one:

Introverts tend to be quieter than extroverts. People tend to correlate quietness with intelligence and thus depth.
 

alcea rosea

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Perhaps the answer is a very simple one:

Introverts tend to be quieter than extroverts. People tend to correlate quietness with intelligence and thus depth.

That makes me wonder what do introverts think when they are quiet?
I have several introverts around me and I never asked the question from them. Tomorrow maybe I will ask about it. :laugh:
 

JustDave

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That makes me wonder what do introverts think when they are quiet?
I have several introverts around me and I never asked the question from them. Tomorrow maybe I will ask about it. :laugh:

They think about everything and anything, but nothing in particular.

Take for example my two bosses which are a perfect example of I vs. E.

My introverted boss speaks in a very taciturn manner and is not very effusive (INTJ or ISTJ). However, my extroverted boss (the ESTJ from hell) talks continuously. He seldom considers what he will say next.
 

bluebell

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Well, I don't think that equation describes anything real (generally speaking simple equations rarely makes sense dealing with people, people are too complex). What I think is that it is easier to see the personality of an extrovert compared to an introvert. If you deal with a shallow extrovert you are going to spot him much faster than if you deal with a shallow introvert. An extrovert full of crap is generally much worse than an introvert full of crap, while a wonderful extrovert is more wonderful than a wonderful introvert. The extroversion just boosts the tendency perceived in a person compared to introversion, because extroverts are more visible. Just a theory...

That's kinda been my impression, and not just for shallowness - other traits as well. I guess it goes both ways - positive traits are going to be more obvious in Es than Is as well.

I've noticed a tendency that introverts spend more time trying to work out what makes others tick and what's going on inside, compared to extraverts. But that's just a general tendency - there are exceptions both ways.
 

Mort Belfry

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If Extraversion equals Shallowness then Intorversion equals Selfishness.

Hopefully you feel better knowing that we're all bad people, whatever.
 

Magic Poriferan

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I don't think Extraversion implies shallowness, but I do think Extraverts conceal their depths more.
People talk about how Introverts are supposedly "hard to know", but I don't think we are any more so than Extraverts.

Extraverts seem extraneous. They seem to play a lot of interpersonal games that are entirely unconstructive. Extraverts have depth, but it feels as though I have to unlock a lot of doors and decypher a lot of codes to get to it.
So, if you can follow me here, I think Extraverts have a superfiscial shell with a lot of substance inside.
 

white

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No.

Extroversion (insofar as it is defined within the MBTI) is a method of transacting incoming stimuli into cogent thought. It has absolutely no connection to one's intellectual efficiency in converting said data into complex associations.

Extroversion does not imply superficiality. Introversion does not presume depth.



Subtle is the Lord. ;)

The appearance does though - The flaw in perception there lies in the fact that depth and breadth in living are often taken to be mutually exclusive.

Are they?

Culturally, we're fed with the notion that "still waters run deep", while the quick crispness of Extroversion is met with "all the depth of a Saltine cracker".

It would be interesting to see the link with self-monitoring - I'd make a guess that Es are considerably more self-monitoring.

Is this not another layer of complexity. Extroverts tend to live more lives than one.

Where comes the energy for living this?

One has to dig deeply, before one can spread out further.

The charge of shallowness comes, because sometimes, the extension is not supported by digging deeply enough yet. That need to reach out kills a young sapling if it has not dug deeper to take on the burdens of more yet. The danger of masks. You become it.

Does it make the reaching out shallow? What part of it was a lie?

Merely the perception.

"He who lives more lives than one, more deaths than one must die". (Wilde - probably one of your best extroverts in literature)

Extroverts carry the weight of others. Introverts carry the weight of self. (Nice phrase, Mort).

Hence the need for development, and in all things, balance.
 

wildcat

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Extraversion and introversion are ways of cortical adjustement.

We simply try to find the optimal cortical activity level. To evade discomfort. Everyone wants to feel good.

For the same reason we drink coffee, alcohol, take a hike, open the radio, close the radio, approach crowds, evade crowds.. whatever we do.. apart from love, self preservation or any other biological instinct.
 

Mort Belfry

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True. But perception is reality. Is it not?

No. Perception is subjective, reality is objective. It's just problematic that perception is the only thing we have on which to gauge reality.
 

JustDave

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For sake of argument, what if many people cannot discern the difference between perception and reality? Wouldn't their perception be their reality?

Please understand that I am not trying to derail this thread. I am simply trying to present a plausible explanation of why extroversion = shallowness.
 

Night

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Extraversion and introversion are ways of cortical adjustement.

We simply try to find the optimal cortical activity level. To evade discomfort. Everyone wants to feel good.

For the same reason we drink coffee, alcohol, take a hike, open the radio, close the radio, approach crowds, evade crowds.. whatever we do.. apart from love, self preservation or any other biological instinct.

Very well said, Wildcat.

For sake of argument, what if many people cannot discern the difference between perception and reality? Wouldn't their perception be their reality?

Perception is reality - broken though it is.

Perception is a flawed instrument set aflame by profound personal bias. This isn't shameful, as long as we are willing to recognize the unavoidable ignorance our limited scope creates.


See: Copenhagen Convention Effect - an object exists in a state of superposition until it is interpreted and classified by a cognizant observer. Classification does not denote accuracy.

See: Dark Energy - a hyperabundant form of energy utterly alien (and wholly lethal) to us, yet it is suspected to compose 85% of all energy in our multiverse.
 

JustDave

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I think that even the most rational of people have difficult accepting the fact that to some extent everything is subjective. Everything is colored by our innate biases. Although I agree that we must accept and understand this. And, hopefully via this understanding we can become better people.
 

Night

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I think that even the most rational of people have difficult accepting the fact that to some extent everything is subjective. Everything is colored by our innate biases. Although I agree that we must accept and understand this. And, hopefully via this understanding we can become better people.

Yes.


Ignorance and brilliance are different shades of the same coin.
 
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