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  1. #61
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    it's not all that complicated
    1) grow your skills. fuck other people at first. the most important think in your life is YOU. so take care of yourself, treat yourself well and grow your skills so you can gain the economic value/success to have the option of doing what you want
    2) use them to get a bunch of money
    3) gain complete autonomy and independence
    4) figure out what you REALLY want to do, including
    - lifestyle
    - what your main "thing" is
    - what you want to learn
    - a to do list of crazy fun things you want to do before you die
    - what is most important to you in life
    5) do all of it. the world is your oyster
    6) marry a beautiful man/woman with a great personality that shares you values and prefered lifestyle
    7) have lots of sex
    8) have plenty of time to relax, reflect and enjoy the quite moments of life
    9) have a supportive group of close friends and possibly a few groups of acquaintences
    10) give back if you want to (not required, but most people genuinely want to). at this point, you will have more influence to help people than most of the self-sacrificing, self righteous losers who think what they do is actually of consequence
    11) express yourself however you want to
    12) pamper the shit out of yourself and treat yourself like a king
    13) you don't have to be a "nice guy" but you'll probably feel better if you're not a total douche bag

    I can boil this down into 3 steps
    1) get money
    2) get autonomy
    3) do whatever the fuck you want for the rest of your life
    I couldn't live with myself if I lived like this.

  2. #62
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Lol, I was channeling my inner monk, ass.

    It was supposed to mean, that when happiness is not something to be achieved or attained, you drop your desire for it. And then ultimately, feel happier. Sometimes the only way to trick yourself into giving up the idea, is to convince yourself it doesn't exist. :p
    Does this mean you've given up on hunting my Red October?

  3. #63
    ThatGirl
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    What does that even mean, Ginkgo?!


    Lol!

  4. #64
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    What does that even mean, Ginkgo?!


    Lol!
    Let's play Gameboy together and achieve true happenis.


  5. #65
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    it's not all that complicated
    1) grow your skills. fuck other people at first. the most important think in your life is YOU. so take care of yourself, treat yourself well and grow your skills so you can gain the economic value/success to have the option of doing what you want
    2) use them to get a bunch of money
    3) gain complete autonomy and independence
    4) figure out what you REALLY want to do, including
    - lifestyle
    - what your main "thing" is
    - what you want to learn
    - a to do list of crazy fun things you want to do before you die
    - what is most important to you in life
    5) do all of it. the world is your oyster
    6) marry a beautiful man/woman with a great personality that shares you values and prefered lifestyle
    7) have lots of sex
    8) have plenty of time to relax, reflect and enjoy the quite moments of life
    9) have a supportive group of close friends and possibly a few groups of acquaintences
    10) give back if you want to (not required, but most people genuinely want to). at this point, you will have more influence to help people than most of the self-sacrificing, self righteous losers who think what they do is actually of consequence
    11) express yourself however you want to
    12) pamper the shit out of yourself and treat yourself like a king
    13) you don't have to be a "nice guy" but you'll probably feel better if you're not a total douche bag

    I can boil this down into 3 steps
    1) get money
    2) get autonomy
    3) do whatever the fuck you want for the rest of your life
    I guess without really being on board with the whole f**king others over thing, I can see what you are saying and even identify a little. I needed to experience life in the way I wanted before I started to feel a bit more settled and content. I don't think there's anything wrong with that (though, I've tried to be ethical about things) and I do think that focusing on making money can get in the way of bigger things that may make you more content. But life's a balancing act, and you don't seem the type to put your nose so close to the grindstone that you'd forget to look up.

    Even if you don't make a pile of cash, which, odds are, will take a lot of time and effort, you could still travel and have a tonne of fun with occasional pampering. (Or just marry well ;-) ).

  6. #66
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    I guess without really being on board with the whole f**king others over thing, I can see what you are saying and even identify a little. I needed to experience life in the way I wanted before I started to feel a bit more settled and content. I don't think there's anything wrong with that (though, I've tried to be ethical about things) and I do think that focusing on making money can get in the way of bigger things that may make you more content. But life's a balancing act, and you don't seem the type to put your nose so close to the grindstone that you'd forget to look up.

    Even if you don't make a pile of cash, which, odds are, will take a lot of time and effort, you could still travel and have a tonne of fun with occasional pampering. (Or just marry well ;-) ).
    I didn't say anything about fucking others over. I'm saying grow your crops before you give away the harvest
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I didn't say anything about fucking others over. I'm saying grow your crops before you give away the harvest
    Did you mean fuck other people at first like playing the field before commitment?

    I also think by "use them to make money" you meant exploiting talents and skills, not people, amirite?

    Because if we can clarify those two things, I can agree with you.

    However, I am not okay with blindly stepping on people to be rich.

  8. #68
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I didn't say anything about fucking others over. I'm saying grow your crops before you give away the harvest
    Oh, you meant the alternate meanings of "fuck other people at first" and "use them to get a bunch of money". Lol.

    I agreed with you in principle though and that was the point of my post.

  9. #69
    RDF
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    I'm reading Elfboy's list as an INFP list. Thus, "fuck other people at first" means "don't follow your instincts and do the people-pleasing or people-helping thing at first. Don't worry about other people. Fuck 'em--they can take care of themselves. Meantime, you do the same--take care of yourself first."

    And "use them to get a bunch of money" refers to skills. That was the actual subject of the previous item ( item 1).

    Like I say, I see Elfboy's post as an INFP list (i.e., created by an INFP for INFPs). The message is: Your people-pleasing instincts are misguided and will keep you from happiness. Get a thicker skin and chase the money, at least for a while. If you take care of yourself at first, then you'll be in a better position to take care of others later if that's still what you want.

    [Edit:] If they want to get ahead in the world, INFPs often need to constantly remind themselves not to fall into the people-pleasing trap. But if they vocalize that, it can sound to other types like they're embracing some kind of perverse "fuck everyone" mentality. But with INFPs, it's just a palliative--a reminder not to spend their own resources down to zero looking out for everyone else's needs. Hence a lot of emphasis in Elfboy's list on autonomy and "figuring out what you REALLY want to do", i.e., not just following the easy impulse to take care of others.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    To the OP, I think it's got to do with being able to shift perspectives.

    Someone was telling me about a book they read that demarcates optimists and pessimists in terms of where each lays responsibility for the good and bad things that happen in life. An optimist will think they are responsible for the good things and that some one/thing else is responsible for the bad things. A pessimist is the opposite. Makes a lot of sense to me in terms of hacking one's own perspective.
    I have realised over the years that I am an optimist and it definitely has a lot to do with me shifting perspective (maybe my Ni at work?) but I am not blaming my failures on someone else. I just try to find the positive in a situation, for example when I miss my train I think, "Oh now I have time to do some shopping before the next one comes." or if I had a bad day I think "But I still feel better than I felt a year ago, so on the whole things are improving." Obviously some situations are just plain bad and no shifting of perspective will change that.

    Concerning what I have learnt about achieving happiness:

    1. Don't compare yourself to others too much, there will always be someone who is better off than you. Also we tend to surround ourselves with people that are on a smiliar level to us and we can lose sight of the bigger picture. So if your friend seems to advance faster in his career don't take this as a reason to be envious, there are millions of people all over the world who would love to be in your shoes as a well-fed, educated, privileged Westerner.

    2. Don't envy people with money or fame. I have worked as a nanny for enough people to know that things look very different from the inside than they appear on the outside. Also getting a lot of money will cost you (One banker whose kids I look after once worked 124 hours in one week, that are 18 hours a day. That is certainly not The Life.)

    3. Once your basic needs are met and you have a little bit more than you need making more money doesn't increase your happiness.

    4. Try not to be too self-absorbed but focus on other people. Everyone has their battles to fight, you are not alone.

    5. Life is not just one straight line that goes up towards bigger successes but life tends to be seasonal/circular. You have good years and bad years like everyone else so don't feel like a loser just because you are in a rubbish period of your life. That too shall pass.

    6. Try to stay away from addictions/false idols like lust for money, fame, approval, power, sex, etc., balance is key, everything else will just suck you dry and not give you much back in return.

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