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  1. #41
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Interesting points everywhere; impressive.

    On the subject of love, I have some thoughts:

    I understand "love" as strength; a curious personal comfort in vulnerability. To openly love is to lead a lifestyle of tremendous courage and risk.


    Obviously there are variations in how profoundly one can express/feel love both as an ideal and in practice. Even within the philosophy of "love", we find barriers both in (unavoidable) acts of self-service and false positives within our perception of how others "love" us. Within the interpretation, we derive a system of governing ethics that serve to define love contemporarily and for generations yet unborn.


    Our awareness (and personal capacity) for love is likely determined by a complex network of stimuli ranging from the simple (what we observe in ourselves v. what we observe in others); the instinctual ("love" as a zone of comfort reducing obstacles toward reproductive efficiency and ultimate security of our species) to the profound (the interplay of culture; sense of personal fulfillment; historical viewpoints - both from an educative (institutional) and parental (domestic) standpoint.)

    The sophisticated flexibility of this mythos permeates expressions of love into a million windows that guideline our behaviors with impossible complexity.



    Love is evolution.

  2. #42
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcearos View Post
    Person without emotions or feelings is not a healthy one.
    Feelings and emotions make us what we are.
    Many terrible decisions is made based on emotion. When something "feels right" it may or may not be - F is seldom a good guide to a good choice. Even finding a partner! Witness the high instances of divorce.

    You may experience a gamut of emotions but are you any better off for it?

    This seems foolish and *suboptimal* - why not strive for the joy without the associated pain? Perhaps the happiness would never seem as accute without the lows...

    As too Alcearos point about not "healthy"... This confuses me I don't have any absolute notion of what *healthy* is any more than I could tell you what is *normal*...

    My tip - don't go too high nor too low. I like my emotions with X&Y but no Z. Nice and 2D. It's a good job I like it like that because I didn't get a choice! Is this unhealthy? Doubt it.

  3. #43
    Member skip's Avatar
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    I would never want a life without emotions but I disagree that a life without emotions would be a life without a reason for living. There's always logic (apologies for bringing Star Trek into the discussion but Vulcans were the first thing I thought of when I read the OP. It is at least theoretically possible to have a culture without feelings).

    The car accident example is interesting, why do you have to have emotions to pull over and help? It could simply be logical to help others because groups of people function better when that's an underlying principle in interaction.

  4. #44
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Many terrible decisions is made based on emotion. When something "feels right" it may or may not be - F is seldom a good guide to a good choice. Even finding a partner! Witness the high instances of divorce.

    You may experience a gamut of emotions but are you any better off for it?
    Emotion and thought are indivisible cooperations.

    Their symbiosis is self-sustaining.



    Fear is an emotion. Fear is an instinctual response to a perceived threat. We feel afraid because we want to avoid harm.

    To avoid harm, we logically construct reasonable methods to respond to our perceived threat.

    How do we decide which method to choose?

    Binary logic as to increase probability of survival.



    Thus, emotion is logic. Logic, emotion.

    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    This seems foolish and *suboptimal* - why not strive for the joy without the associated pain?
    Without hashing too much armchair philosophy, how can one rationally appreciate joy without pain?

    Inversion is empirical context.

  5. #45
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Emotion and thought are indivisible cooperations.

    Their symbiosis is self-sustaining.



    Fear is an emotion. Fear is an instinctual response to a perceived threat. We feel afraid because we want to avoid harm.

    To avoid harm, we logically construct reasonable methods to respond to our perceived threat.

    How do we decide which method to choose?

    Binary logic as to increase probability of survival.

    Thus, emotion is logic. Logic, emotion.

    Without hashing too much armchair philosophy, how can one rationally appreciate joy without pain?

    Inversion is empirical context.
    The bolded assumes though, that people behave logically. More often than not, people in the sway of emotions would behave instinctively, or emotionally. Not logically.

    It requires one who understands emotions, to then use logic to derive a path of action. ie, emotions are the driving forces of life--negative emotions push us ("I am afraid of this/I do not want to be this"), while positive emotions pull us ("I want so much to be this/This makes me happy therefore i will pursue it"). Upon the forces of push and pull, humanity finds its place: logic then determines what paths may be best taken.

    If one feels nothing, there would be no progress in life. Then, as life always evolves (the Red Queen Hypothesis), even if you are in a steady niche, you'd slowly fall behind.

    Having said that tho: if peace is not considered to be an emotion, then, having no emotions would mean that one is able to let go of everything, and finally be at peace with oneself and the world. That would not be a bad thing, to be free of desire, yet hold empathy and compassion.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  6. #46
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    If you were given the option to have a life without having emotions, would you choose it? Would you be willing to throw out happiness if it meant getting rid of sadness? Why or why not?

    Yes, absolutely I would. But only if everyone else did as well, otherwise you'd have all the problems that Vulcans have when dealing with other species who are emotional.

    Then again, it would be nice to be able to just learn about other people's feelings intellectually and learn how to deal with them, without all the frustration and embarrassment (when you get it wrong) and guilt and stuff that you get normally when learning these things... and without the hassle of having to simultaneously deal with trying to understand your own feelings.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #47
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Fear is an emotion. Fear is an instinctual response to a perceived threat. We feel afraid because we want to avoid harm.

    To avoid harm, we logically construct reasonable methods to respond to our perceived threat.

    Thus, emotion is logic. Logic, emotion.
    Fear of the dark, say, is pretty real. It's also irrational. Emotions have logic (to the beholder) but are not necessarily logical or rational when observed from the outside.

    It's interesting you should should give fear as an example. This little leftover from our days as apes!

    This is cognitive bias and appears real because you feel it. If you don't feel it the ghosts vanish - and you may enjoy your moonlight walk that much better...

  8. #48
    actinomycetes raindancing's Avatar
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    It seems like no emotions would cause the human race to be stagnant...
    “Can a man of perception respect himself at all?”
    ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

  9. #49
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    Is it really necessary for mankind to advance?

  10. #50
    Senior Member JustDave's Avatar
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    Advancement is an arbitrary goal that many us want to achieve and certianly is not necessary. In fact a good argument could be made that mankind's best period was the mid 1900's. After that we became soft and undisciplined.

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