Demanding Fakeness

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

My biggest pet peeve is when people impose on me to show happiness of excitement. There are subtle ways and not-so-subtle ways. No-so-subtly, people will ask me occasionally if I'm ok, why I'm not not smiling, why I'm not happy, why I look so sad, etc. Most of the time I'm actually just calm and reflecting on things which makes the inquiry not only imposing, but offensive, as if to say there's something wrong with not talking or not engaging. Fuck off. Even if I was sad, there are better ways to get a person to open up than to "accuse" them of violating social norms.

Then of course there are the less obvious ways people demand artificiality:

Validation requests. There people Some people will leave clues for you to validate them and show you how much you appreciate them. Even if you're not feeling it, their hints force you to seek or feign feelings that aren't necessarily there. These people lack a strong, stable self-image and need the validation of others to rid them of feelings of worthlessness.

The "yay!!!!" and other tools. Watch a group of people when one of them starts to yay!, and the rest will start yay!ing with them. Yay!ing is a way of forcing others to mirror one's level of fake enthusiasm and return it. A failure to respond with another yay is often taken as a social rejection. Yay!ing, of course, is only one way people force energy levels to go up. Another way is through constant, stentorian laughter, post-joke glaring that force the listener to laugh, or even blasting techno music all day. These folks can't tolerate quiet and calm environments and need to pump the atmosphere with "positivity," even if it's contrived.

It's interesting to see how people who are more dominant tend to reject these demands to approval or excitement, while submissives accede to these requests. I personally can't tolerate this (even when I make my own requests for validation), and think it's a great introvert-marker. It drains me like nothing else.

 

[mippus]

Yes, that makes me want to smack their faces too
It's like when you are reading a book or listening to your i-pod that people come and talk to you because they think it is so sad to be on your own like that... In a way they force you out of your activity then, and try to make you feel grateful for that "welcome rescue" ...

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

HULK SMASH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Indeed, mippus, indeed.

 

[disregard]

When someone only "yay"s when they want to, it gives the exclamation more value. This is what the submissives do not realise. Not to say that I am not a submissive. I am not sure where I fall on the sub/dom continuum, assuming there is one. I get a sort of pleasure out of completely ignoring requests for validation. It might be passive aggressive of me, it might not be, but it it's a sign of neediness, and I have always discouraged that within my circle of family and friends.

 

[Mycroft]

You've discovered that the social system is, indeed, a system.

Why is that so irksome to you?

 

[Metamorphosis]

"You don't talk much do you?"

translation:

"Why aren't you talking to me? "

 

[Grayscale]

it's a great introvert-marker. It drains me like nothing else.

this is the cornerstone of my opinion on this issue...

my external disposition is a diluted reflection of my internal world and falls within a small span of expressions.

when i was younger, it was often suggested to me by others that my discrepancy in any social group was some sort of problem. over the past few years i have realized that my chilled out demeanor is not only not wrong, but preferential.

i hate suggestion that i must mirror the general mood, and when people inquire me about such i usually explain myself quite clearly. in the past, after that didnt work, i might have given a half-assed smile so they would leave me alone, now i understand that it is their issue, not mine - "no, i explained myself, that's how it is, youll get over it"

my poker face and monotone voice is often disconcerting to others, but that doesnt bother me anymore. i dont have the energy to deal with people who think they know what im thinking

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

When someone only "yay"s when they want to, it gives the exclamation more value. This is what the submissives do not realise. Not to say that I am not a submissive. I am not sure where I fall on the sub/dom continuum, assuming there is one. I get a sort of pleasure out of completely ignoring requests for validation. It might be passive aggressive of me, it might not be, but it it's a sign of neediness, and I have always discouraged that within my circle of family and friends.

I've tried to decide whether my discomfort comes from a discomfort with neediness, or an unwillingness to compromise myself for that neediness. Maybe it's both. Either way, I hear ya. I ignore the requests in my friends too, in order to demonstrate that it's okay to be bored or sad and that one doesn't have to feign excitement.

Unfortunately, when I'm in relationships, I tend to create excitement or laughter to fill in gaps of silence because in my warped fragile little mind, silence bodes distance. It's common on first dates, but I don't transition out of that stage very well. *shrug*

 

[mippus]

... still I see many introverts that demand the same amount of applause...

 

[disregard]

I've tried to decide whether my discomfort comes from a discomfort with neediness, or an unwillingness to compromise myself for that neediness. Maybe it's both. Either way, I hear ya. I ignore the requests in my friends too, in order to demonstrate that it's okay to be bored or sad and that one doesn't have to feign excitement.

Unfortunately, when I'm in relationships, I tend to create excitement or laughter to fill in gaps of silence because in my warped fragile little mind, silence bodes distance. It's common on first dates, but I don't transition out of that stage very well. *shrug*

I think it's both. Such an obvious request gets under my skin because we both know what you're doing.

Ah... I have the opposite problem. I don't like to create excitement or laughter until I am comfortable in my skin around the person. I make a pretty awkward first date

 

[heart]

My biggest pet peeve is when people impose on me to show happiness of excitement...

ITA. I hate when people expect bubbliness out of me just because I am female. :steam:

No-so-subtly, people will ask me occasionally if I'm ok, why I'm not not smiling, why I'm not happy, why I look so sad, etc. Most of the time I'm actually just calm and reflecting on things which makes the inquiry not only imposing, but offensive, as if to say there's something wrong with not talking or not engaging. Fuck off. Even if I was sad, there are better ways to get a person to open up than to "accuse" them of violating social norms.

I could not agree more. I get so tired of being pressured just because I don't go around with big smile plastered to my face 24/7. Most of the time, I am either thinking on something or I am already tired and drained and I just don't have the energy. I get fed up with this being taken as being "mad" or "sad."

 

[SillySapienne]

To defend some Fs, a lot of women, and I'm guessing most mothers, when in the company of someone you care about and they *appear* down/sullen/not-ok, it is damn near instinctual for, at least me, to ask what is wrong.

In regards to other people, and more pertinently, in regards to people I care about, I can only know what they show me, and what they tell me. If there is confusion, or discrepancy between these two things, then my desire to truly understand them urges me to ask.

^ I don't know how much that relates with your OP, but that's what it made me think of.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

You've discovered that the social system is, indeed, a system.

Why is that so irksome to you?

I've tried to decide whether my discomfort comes from a discomfort with neediness, or an unwillingness to compromise myself for that neediness. Maybe it's both. Either way, I hear ya. I ignore the requests in my friends too, in order to demonstrate that it's okay to be bored or sad and that one doesn't have to feign excitement.

Unfortunately, when I'm in relationships, I tend to create excitement or laughter to fill in gaps of silence because in my warped fragile little mind, silence bodes distance. It's common on first dates, but I don't transition out of that stage very well. *shrug*

Does that answer your question? Those are my best guesses, but I'd love to explore it more or listen to your insights if you have any.

 

[heart]

To defend some Fs, a lot of women, and I'm guessing most mothers, when in the company of someone you care about and they *appear* down/sullen/not-ok, it is damn near instinctual for, at least me, to ask what is wrong.

In regards to other people, and more pertinently, in regards to people I care about, I can only know what they show me, and what they tell me. If there is confusion, or discrepancy between these two things, then my desire to truly understand them urges me to ask.

^ I don't know how much that relates with your OP, but that's what it made me think of.

That's understandable, but do you continue to prod and push after being told that the other person is fine? That's the part that drains me, is when people just won't take my answer at face value and continue to push.

 

[SillySapienne]

Also, listen to all you "I"s go!!!!!

I can't tell you how often my E-ness has been appreciated by purposeful, or unpurposeful alienated introverts.

When I don't want to be bothered, I'm not. I am a girl, and even I have perfected the art of "stay the hell away from me" vibes.

Also if you want to be left alone, do what I do, *be* alone.

 

[Seanan]

I used to have a girlfriend who was always telling me to "smiiiile." She would go so far as to say "You have such a pretty smile.... you should show it." Of course, she went around with what I considered a shitty grin on her face all the time. There is nothing that will put me off quicker than someone telling me to smile socially.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

this is the cornerstone of my opinion on this issue...

my external disposition is a diluted reflection of my internal world and falls within a small span of expressions.

when i was younger, it was often suggested to me by others that my discrepancy in any social group was some sort of problem. over the past few years i have realized that my chilled out demeanor is not only not wrong, but preferential.

i hate suggestion that i must mirror the general mood, and when people inquire me about such i usually explain myself quite clearly. in the past, after that didnt work, i might have given a half-assed smile so they would leave me alone, now i understand that it is their issue, not mine - "no, i explained myself, that's how it is, youll get over it"

my poker face and monotone voice is often disconcerting to others, but that doesnt bother me anymore. i dont have the energy to deal with people who think they know what im thinking

Well said. The interesting thing is that by staying true to yourself in the face of group pressure, you redefine the social norms in the group and give permission to others to be themselves. At that point, real bonding and exchange can take place, even though you may have increased the risk of confrontation or rejection by unveiling true feelings.

That brings up another question: what is the purpose of forcing others to fake? Is it just something that serves to quell the Forcer's concerns and worries, or does it also serve the GROUP well being (on a short-term basis) by masking hostilities?

 

[SillySapienne]

That's understandable, but do you continue to prod and push after being told that the other person is fine? That's the part that drains me, is when people just won't take my answer at face value and continue to push.

I have a general rule of asking three times, (mind you, I only do so to close friends/family members, and only when I truly *feel* like something is up...and usually, there is).

However, after the third time I ask and they insist they are fine, I leave them be.


* Also, it should be noted if, and when, someone says, "I just want to be left alone." I *always* respect their wishes!!!

 

[heart]

Also, listen to all you "I"s go!!!!!

I can't tell you how often my E-ness has been appreciated by purposeful, or unpurposeful alienated introverts.

When I don't want to be bothered, I'm not. I am a girl, and even I have perfected the art of "stay the hell away from me" vibes.

Also if you want to be left alone, do what I do, *be* alone.

I don't necessarily want to totally avoid people, I just want to be accepted without being pressured to have a jackass grin on my face all the time and expected to act like I am so excited I am about to wet my pants all the time.

Yes, sadly, there are people that I will avoid because of the pushy way they act and I say "Gosh, I just don't have the energy to deal with them today."

I have an ISFP friend who thinks the same way I do and my goodness she is a restful person to be around.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Also, listen to all you "I"s go!!!!!

Like I said above, I think this is one of the defining attributes for an introvert. It relates to the concept of emotional labor in psych.

I can't tell you how often my E-ness has been appreciated by purposeful, or unpurposeful alienated introverts.

Sometimes it's a boon. Other times, it can be overwhelming. (Not you personally, but extroverted energy in general.)

When I don't want to be bothered, I'm not. I am a girl, and even I have perfected the art of "stay the hell away from me" vibes.

Also if you want to be left alone, do what I do, *be* alone.

I actually enjoy being around people. I love it, in fact. I even love talking to people. But I can't tolerate fakeness. So yeah...not really on point, Captain.