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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluebell View Post
    aelan!

    (and yes, Edahn seems to have duplicated a lot of posts - I've deleted the doubles of mine)

    The bolded bit seems somewhat familiar to me, and I'm struggling with that too. I wrote this on another forum - is this the sort of thing you're talking about?



    Note that this isn't the cause of why I'm adrift without any core values, but it's something that I noticed a few weeks ago. I guess it's an example of how I can't really get clarity internally. Everything can be seen from so many different angles and I don't know what I personally believe is right.
    Not so much your quote from INTPc(?), as I've simply found it easier to use charm to get along, and get a team together. I do not see it as wrong, though my sister calls it hypocritical. I merely see it as a divorce from work with personal. My confusion is more the part above as you've said. What is right or wrong seems very situational to me nowadays. So in a lack of definition, how does one operate. And to draw further, when situations change, you'd change your actions. Does this mean you're not true to yourself/your values/your beliefs?

    So.. simply.. what is the framework to reference your life against... Or there is simply not that constancy?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I'll repeat what I understood, and you tell me if I'm right: You feel like you're not in touch with yourself, with your ideals and your "path." Is that accurate?

    If that's the case, then I stand by my original advice. Slow down and live with focus and deliberation. Surrounding yourself with beauty and calmness will help you get in touch with your calm sense of self. That's where you'll feel in touch. Don't worry too much about not getting in touch with it right away. Just let it unfold organically and at its own pace.

    Even at work, try and act with carefulness and deliberation. That might mean risking rejection from your coworkers, but I don't think anything particularly bad can come out of that and people around you will appreciate and be inspired by your changes.
    I think it was the 52nd reading of the I-Ching. Stillness. About how the most rested person isn't one who is able to sleep 12 hours a day, but able to grab catnaps while nipping through the air at xxx miles an hour. And how one should let go of worries and time-out.

    Perhaps I should just go for a long time out...

    Thanks Edahn. Nice to see this side of you.

  3. #23
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    Not so much your quote from INTPc(?), as I've simply found it easier to use charm to get along, and get a team together. I do not see it as wrong, though my sister calls it hypocritical. I merely see it as a divorce from work with personal. My confusion is more the part above as you've said. What is right or wrong seems very situational to me nowadays. So in a lack of definition, how does one operate. And to draw further, when situations change, you'd change your actions. Does this mean you're not true to yourself/your values/your beliefs?

    So.. simply.. what is the framework to reference your life against... Or there is simply not that constancy?
    Yeah, it's something I wrote at INTPc. I suspect part of why it feels so fake to me is that I had to conciously learn people/social skills, so I'm always aware that I'm acting how I'm supposed to act at work (ie build consenus and rapport, and influence and convince people who are somewhat antagonistic) instead of how I'd prefer to act.

    The other part is possibly related to what you said in terms of things being situational. Sincerity is something that I do value. But - if you're encouraged to act insincere at work and see insincerity all around - then that erodes that value. And what I quoted is the outcome. And then I don't know what is 'right' for me.

    I guess I've tried to solve this logically. ie to try to come up with a watertight definition of how to interact with people which is situational-independent. But I'm not sure this is the best way forward.

    And the other part of values isn't necessarily ethics based - it's also 'what do I want to do with my life' - work, relationships, friendships, hobbies, relaxation etc. This category of values I suspect will gradually resolve with time. The other category - more along the lines of personal ethics - it's less clear how to resolve it.

  4. #24
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    ygolo,

    You've got a laundry-list of things you want to change. If your discipline isn't strong yet, then there's no point in trying to address all of them at once. You need to commit to something and dedicate yourself. I would choose the thing or things that are easiest to change and have the biggest payoff. I think that going to the gym and working on being silly are excellent starts.

    In terms of going to the gym, you just need to get out and go. There IS no trick, but it does get easier after you gain some momentum. It's hard at first and you need to force yourself. That's it. How frequently, per week, could you go (and actually maintain)? I thought 3 times was a fair amount, enough to get the ball rolling, but not overkill. 2 plus some other sports activity, - jogging, biking, yoga - would be okay too. Could you commit to that?

    As for the rest,

    But in general conversation, I tried to empathise with people too, but seem to be horrible at it. I end up asking things like "that must have been fun, huh?," or "how did that feel?" and I end up getting responses like, "What's with the 3rd degree?" after a while.
    Sometimes you just have nothing to say, and that's okay. This isn't Late Night with your host, Ygolo O'Brien. You're a regular guy, probably more reflective that most. So, the first thing to do is to cut yourself some slack. You're going to make mistakes just like the people who ask why you're giving them the 3rd degree (pretty obnoxious, imo). Practice being silly. Instead of "conversing," just play for your own amusement. If people look like they want to open up, listen to them as best you can. If they look at you weird, that's fine. Maybe they're not ready to empathize with people, just as you have your own challenges. If there's anything you can understand, it's difficulty socializing, right?

    That has been on-going for sometime. Nothing particuarly conclusive, yet. I know there is a narrow set of activities I still like to do. I want to find more. But I am thinking, part of it is low self-esteem stemming from feeling generally incompetent at life.
    Again, patience is important. How old are you? How many people your age would you consider competent in life? Otherwise, you can start making some changes to make you more competent. Working out is a great centerpiece that I'm asking you to dedicate to.

    What does "flowingly" mean?
    With grace.

    I don't know about speedbagging my nut-sack (I think that'll hurt). But being silly is cetainly something I can try.
    Okay, but make sure you nut sack is involved. LOL

    Seriously. I process slowly. If people talk too fast, I get lost. If too many things are going on at the same time, I get lost. I am not a good driver, but I manage by avoiding the rush-times. I really suck at shooting games. I am most people's top kill when I play. In college, I got good at quake levels, by knowing where to "camp" to get a lot of frags (apparently this is frowned on). I'll check out Set and photohunt.
    I process slowly too. Whatever. In some areas I'm faster than others, in some areas I'm slower. Set is still good.

    How do I recognize a particular emotion in myself?
    How do I recognize a particular emotion in someone else?
    Yoga, exercise, and the stuff I wrote to Aelan to help get you in touch with your body and to calm down your mind.

    How do I determine (in)appropriate/(un)acceptable behavior when the appropriate behavior is not spelled out? Assuming, in addition, that the behavior being judged clearly does not harm (or neglect to help) someone.
    Looking for cues in your environment, and acting with confidence. Wit and playfulness is also a good way to disarm judgment and show that you're harmless. Your approach to socializing seems very intellectual, but doesn't have to be. The trick, I think, is to get in touch with yourself by giving yourself permission to fuck up and permission to not worry so much about fucking up, or about making a good impression and being accepted. If that means you turn quiet and contemplative, that's fine. Eventually, I think, you'll work into a "zone" where you'll know how to act and what to do.

    Practice giving yourself permission to fuck up. Practice being silly at least once or twice a day and try and work it into social situations with friends. Hit the gym 2-3 times a week. Walk with focus and pride. Also, I would recommend watching a shitload of the Dog Whisperer on YouTube, although that's only icing on the cake. It's not a substitute.

  5. #25

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    Thanks for the advice.

    I think you will make a good therapist if you decide to go that route.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  6. #26
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    This question arises from a couple of discussions over various threads.

    In the original MBTI theory, each person had 4 cognitive processes which formed the core of how they'd operate. In the XXXX type discussion, the question raised was that everyone had the shadow processes working, within the main 4, and not subsequent to; would a well developed person be XXXX then, i.e. able to use all functions with equal comfort.

    Have also funny cognitive test results for myself - I'm weak Si, Fi, Se is average. Ne, Ni, Te, Ti, Fe are all strong for me.

    So... I'm curious to know, how could one develop the functions one is weaker in, specifically Fi, Si, Se for me.

    Replies from dominant/auxilliary of these types would be much appreciated, as with clear paths of action.

    Reason I'm asking is I've realised the weak Fi could be the lack of centre for me, and I need a balance to the critical parent that is Ti, and the wildchild that is Fe.

    P.S: If anyone wishes some insights how to develop other functions, for anyone else, you're welcome to. Thread is open for tangents.
    There is a small section of several pages on how to develop your inferior functions in the book, Do What You Are by Barron & Tieger.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    Reason I'm asking is I've realised the weak Fi could be the lack of centre for me, and I need a balance to the critical parent that is Ti, and the wildchild that is Fe.
    For starters, try post #4 in the following thread:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...developed.html

  8. #28
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    Hmm... well I'm not sure how much this will help, but here's my personal experience with my inferior function.

    Let it be known that I tend to follow Beebe's archetype theory, so I believe that my inferior is a source of strength within me rather than my achilles heel.

    My inferior function is Se. I find that I develop it best when I am at my worst. At my worst, my natural way to "extravert" is through my auxillary - Fe. But eventually, Fe gets tired out and I still feel as though the problem isn't going away or getting resolved (even after I've talked my mom or my best friend to death). I have to make a conscious effort (and believe me, it's a HUGE effort) to access my Se - almost as my last resort, I guess. Basically, I get my exhausted self out of bed and go to yoga or hike or treat myself to a really awesome lunch. I ALWAYS feel better when I do this - even if it's only short lived. It also helps me see my problem from more of an outside point of view an gives me the perspective that I just don't get from my Ni-Fe-Ti cycle.

    How does this differ from a Se dominant or auxillary? Well, for one, it's a pain in the butt to access in a positive way. I literally have to MAKE myself do it & believe me, I'm fighting it every step of a way. But once I do it, I feel a tremendous relief - as if it was the last thing I needed to do to feel better. I also have to watch that it's not coming out in a destructive way - which is by over drinking, spending, eating, etc. The destructive way is probably the most natural way for it to come out for me, so if it's flowing out of me like water - it's probably not a good thing!

    I also think my Se is what ultimately drives me to actually take action on a bad situation. I tend to stay in bad situations longer than I should, but I'd like to think that final burst of energy I get to push me to change my environment by taking action is my inferior coming to the rescue.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by quietgirl View Post
    Let it be known that I tend to follow Beebe's archetype theory, so I believe that my inferior is a source of strength within me rather than my achilles heel.

    My inferior function is Se.
    I'm a bit slow w/understanding the functions. Could you tell me how you'd normally go about solving a problem and then how you'd sove it using your Se? Is it that you just step back and take a break? Are you allowing yourself to do something? It seems like you're gathering info and giving it time to perculate and then taking action which seems a lot like Ni (Ne?) again confused but could you give examples? Thanks

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by spartan26 View Post
    I'm a bit slow w/understanding the functions. Could you tell me how you'd normally go about solving a problem and then how you'd sove it using your Se? Is it that you just step back and take a break? Are you allowing yourself to do something? It seems like you're gathering info and giving it time to perculate and then taking action which seems a lot like Ni (Ne?) again confused but could you give examples? Thanks
    Hmm, well I don't necessarily stop using my other functions and I'm sure they "drive" one another in ways.

    Let's put it this way - when I want to get something out of my head, I naturally extravert through my auxillary (Fe). This includes talking others about my problem, asking for advice, and in extreme cases, becoming sort of "martyr"-ish and self sacrificing. If I can make a conscious decision (and I'm talking actually tell myself and force myself) to do something more in the realm of Se (physical activity and general external sensory things) then it provides me with a great sense of relief.

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