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Narcissism, a GOOD trait

Elfboy

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article from psychologytoday.com
Narcissistic Personality Disorder involves arrogant behavior, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration-all of which must be consistently evident at work and in relationships. People who are narcissistic are frequently described as cocky, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding. Narcissists may concentrate on unlikely personal outcomes (e.g., fame) and may be convinced that they deserve special treatment. Related Personality Disorders: Antisocial, Borderline, Histrionic. Narcissism is a less extreme version of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Narcissism involves cockiness, manipulativeness, selfishness, power motives, and vanity-a love of mirrors. Related personality traits include: Psychopathy, Machiavellianism.


Narcissists tend to have high self-esteem. However, narcissism is not the same thing as self-esteem; people who have high self-esteem are often humble, whereas narcissists rarely are. It was once thought that narcissists have high self-esteem on the surface, but deep down they are insecure. However, the latest evidence indicates that narcissists are actually secure or grandiose at both levels. Onlookers may infer that insecurity is there because narcissists tend to be defensive when their self-esteem is threatened (e.g., being ridiculed); narcissists can be aggressive. The sometimes dangerous lifestyle may more generally reflect sensation-seeking or impulsivity (e.g., risky sex, bold financial decisions).

I would argue that mild to moderate narcissism is a very good thing at that some level of it is necessary for success
1) high self esteem and secure self image
2) love of self
3) high ego ie, desiring status, glamour, comfort, luxury and money
4) ambition
5) self first, others second = less hastle taking care of your own needs
6) high confidence in self and abilities

pursueing a career in entrepreneurship or performance would be almost impossible without at least a low level of narcissism. I mean, those with altruistic lifestyles, low self esteem, low ego or low self confidence usually don't get a whole lot done.
 

Mephistopheles

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article from psychologytoday.com


I would argue that mild to moderate narcissism is a very good thing at that some level of it is necessary for success
1) high self esteem and secure self image
2) love of self
3) high ego ie, desiring status, glamour, comfort, luxury and money
4) ambition
5) self first, others second = less hastle taking care of your own needs
6) high confidence in self and abilities

pursueing a career in entrepreneurship or performance would be almost impossible without at least a low level of narcissism. I mean, those with altruistic lifestyles, low self esteem, low ego or low self confidence usually don't get a whole lot done.

The first part is true, but I highly doubt the second part; Actually, I would spell it this way: Narcissism is usually good for your personal career, but also usually bad for literally everyone around you because you do everything you can at their expense.

Also, "mild to moderate narcissism" isn't really a good term; The point about narcissism is OVERconfidence in your abilities, contempt of others, love of self to an unhealthy degree etc. Narcissists live in a world of fantasy in which they're awesome and everyone other just sucks. On the other side, simple confidence in your abilities and love yourself but also others etc. is called "healthy self-esteem". And these people have exactly the same good traits without the bad traits narcissists have.
 

Within

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Observing a person with narcissistic personality disorder having a shit fit is probably one of the most entertaining things I've seen. Talk about being unable to take constructive criticism.

NPD-unrelated to other symptoms, is due to be removed as a stand alone mental illness, and will probably not be featured in DSM-V when published.
 

guesswho

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Narcissism is shit. However it will get you laid.

Have you ever met any people like that? or you just read the theoretical description. They're so full of shit. Lying, manipulative, selfish sons of bitches.
 

yenom

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Narcissism is superiority complex. Everyone has some form of it.
 

INTP

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well all those traits of narcissistic personality disorder basically comes from being inability to use empathy. because of lack of empathy narcissistic people are unable to care about other peoples feelings(because they cant understand them/relate to them on levels that healthy people can). for example one trait of narcissistic people is that they feel like they are unable to communicate with people who cant speak their academic language, thus seeing them as useless crap who are retarded and seeing themselves superior. ruthlessly take advantage of people since they see other people just tools that they can use to gain personal benefits. since they totally lack empathy, they dont care what happens to those other people, for the narcissistic people they are just idiots since they believed him and because he was able to use them, this also boosts their ego because now they have more confidence on using people. these love of self, high ego and stuff like that originate from that sort of malfunctioning thinking.

those traits like high self-esteem, love of self etc should be obtained using healthy thinking and only then they are positive traits. when someone with narcissistic personality disorder has those traits, they are negative traits since they originate from really unhealthy and disturbed way of thinking. naturally the person who has narcissistic pd is usually happy with himself, but for other people they are maybe worst people to even know somehow.
 

King sns

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article from psychologytoday.com


I would argue that mild to moderate narcissism is a very good thing at that some level of it is necessary for success
1) high self esteem and secure self image
2) love of self
3) high ego ie, desiring status, glamour, comfort, luxury and money
4) ambition
5) self first, others second = less hastle taking care of your own needs
6) high confidence in self and abilities

pursueing a career in entrepreneurship or performance would be almost impossible without at least a low level of narcissism. I mean, those with altruistic lifestyles, low self esteem, low ego or low self confidence usually don't get a whole lot done.

I don't think of narcissism as an equivalent to self esteem, but then again haven't read much on it. I always think that narcissists have really low self esteem and need to constantly pay attention to themselves and need all this extra work and attention to keep themselves happy. Kind of self destructive, where as people with high self esteem don't seem to think about themselves that much at all, because they don't need to. They can be productive with other things.

I agree that a mild amount of narcissism is probably harmless, if not normal.

Edit: Just read the second half of the article. Very, very interesting that they found narcissists to be secure as well as narcissistic. I wonder how they measured that one. Actually, after reading that, (and INTP's description) I realize that I most likely knew one or two of them. It is all making sense. Either way, they've got to be lonely with no one around. It's probably better to develop high self esteem without the added narcissism to go along with it.

Edit #2: I'm thinking that if they studied whether narcissists were secure or not by asking the narcissist a series of questions about whether they were secure, that's not a valid finding... (Of course the narcissist is going to think he's secure. He has an identity to uphold..) Or I dunno, maybe there's a secure/insecure area of the brain that they can PET scan now?
 

prplchknz

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how is being a shit head that loves yourself so much that you destroy other people a good thing? yes you sometimes should put yourself first, but sometimes it's actually to your advantage to put your self second or third. Also narcissists have no real self insight, they don't see their flaws. Yeah there's nothing good about narcissism
 

INTP

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how is being a shit head that loves yourself so much that you destroy other people a good thing? yes you sometimes should put yourself first, but sometimes it's actually to your advantage to put your self second or third. Also narcissists have no real self insight, they don't see their flaws. Yeah there's nothing good about narcissism

ENFPs see good in all people :D
 

FDG

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A disorder isn't "mild". Mild narcissism might just be named high self confidence, which isn't narcissistic.
 

Hive

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If you are narcissistic, the bolded wouldn't be true.
Right. Isn't the over-confidence the narcissist's way of compensating for extreme selfloathing and low selfesteem?
 

Santosha

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All the studies I've looked at on Narcissism have shown that they DO NOT have self-esteem issues, quite the contrary. (You might be able to argue this point depending on the definition of self-esteem and the way these studies were conducted, but by most definitions and measures this is not a problem for the narcissist.) The problem is specifically *empathy*. The narcissist can do very well for themselves in careers, and relations, probably other ways *initially*. But no matter what the narcissist does, there will eventually come a time when other people are needed in some way. And to maintain good relations, there must be a mutually agreed upon give and take to the relation. The narcissist might be able to give and take fairly to a point, but eventually their lack of empathy does lead to a lack of understanding, and causes the relation to go bad. In addition, Narcissism might be beneficial for the individual, but it is not beneficial for those around them beyond financial security, materialism, image (to a degree). Most humans require emotional support and understanding. While a narcissist might be very adept at mimicking these qualities to get what they want, the truth will eventually reveal itself. Bottom line, narcissism wll eventually lead to an island, and no one can function optimally as an island.
Also, narcissim does not equal high-self esteem. There are many people with high self-esteem capeable of empathy. The distinction lies in the true underlying motivation.
 

King sns

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All the studies I've looked at on Narcissism have shown that they DO NOT have self-esteem issues, quite the contrary. (You might be able to argue this point depending on the definition of self-esteem and the way these studies were conducted, but by most definitions and measures this is not a problem for the narcissist.) The problem is specifically *empathy*. The narcissist can do very well for themselves in careers, and relations, probably other ways *initially*. But no matter what the narcissist does, there will eventually come a time when other people are needed in some way. And to maintain good relations, there must be a mutually agreed upon give and take to the relation. The narcissist might be able to give and take fairly to a point, but eventually their lack of empathy does lead to a lack of understanding, and causes the relation to go bad. In addition, Narcissism might be beneficial for the individual, but it is not beneficial for those around them beyond financial security, materialism, image (to a degree). Most humans require emotional support and understanding. While a narcissist might be very adept at mimicking these qualities to get what they want, the truth will eventually reveal itself. Bottom line, narcissism wll eventually lead to an island, and no one can function optimally as an island.
Also, narcissim does not equal high-self esteem. There are many people with high self-esteem capeable of empathy. The distinction lies in the true underlying motivation.

I'm still curious about how they measured whether or not narcissists had self esteem issues?
 

Elfboy

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All the studies I've looked at on Narcissism have shown that they DO NOT have self-esteem issues, quite the contrary. (You might be able to argue this point depending on the definition of self-esteem and the way these studies were conducted, but by most definitions and measures this is not a problem for the narcissist.) The problem is specifically *empathy*. The narcissist can do very well for themselves in careers, and relations, probably other ways *initially*. But no matter what the narcissist does, there will eventually come a time when other people are needed in some way. And to maintain good relations, there must be a mutually agreed upon give and take to the relation. The narcissist might be able to give and take fairly to a point, but eventually their lack of empathy does lead to a lack of understanding, and causes the relation to go bad. In addition, Narcissism might be beneficial for the individual, but it is not beneficial for those around them beyond financial security, materialism, image (to a degree). Most humans require emotional support and understanding. While a narcissist might be very adept at mimicking these qualities to get what they want, the truth will eventually reveal itself. Bottom line, narcissism wll eventually lead to an island, and no one can function optimally as an island.
Also, narcissim does not equal high-self esteem. There are many people with high self-esteem capeable of empathy. The distinction lies in the true underlying motivation.

agreed
 

guesswho

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So, I assume at this point most people on the thread will start arguing?

Being narcissistic isn't all that bad for the one who suffers from the disorder, it's actually so good that a very high percentage of them don't want to give it up. Don't want to handle their shit.

Most of what I know is from what I've observed, and a little online research.
It's interesting how they appear so cool, but when you take a closer look at the long term behavior you can observe all sorts of weird shit.

Most of the weird shit is in stress periods. That's when people notice that there's something odd about their self esteem.
Some of them may enjoy hurting, subjugating people on purpose, just to exibit some sense of power. Some of them may also be antisocial and usually belittle people, considering them all ugly idiots.

Some may view the world and people in ups and downs. Admiring intensely some person for a while, and then switching their opinions radically, considering them idiots, and continuing the pattern with other people, always finding someone new.

Some may be obsessed with social status, and will use/manipulate people to achieve their goals.

They also show a big time lack of empathy.

Their weirdness is interesting.

However, short term interaction with them won't show much wrong. They're pretty impressive.
 

Lark

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article from psychologytoday.com


I would argue that mild to moderate narcissism is a very good thing at that some level of it is necessary for success
1) high self esteem and secure self image
2) love of self
3) high ego ie, desiring status, glamour, comfort, luxury and money
4) ambition
5) self first, others second = less hastle taking care of your own needs
6) high confidence in self and abilities

pursueing a career in entrepreneurship or performance would be almost impossible without at least a low level of narcissism. I mean, those with altruistic lifestyles, low self esteem, low ego or low self confidence usually don't get a whole lot done.

You cant have moderate narcissism, its not a super charged legitimate self-interest, esteem and confidence its a pathological disorder.

The behaviour and rationalisations that a narcissist presents to the world are in reality an overcompensation for secret but crushing doubts, they are the opposite in reality or in fact to what they appear.

Consequently their highly "deployed" or "defensive" natures makes them ill suited for any kind of treatment, they're likely to suspect that they're being "played" for a sap, a lot of the time if they come into treatment its not acknowledgely for what the root cause of their suffering is, the narcissistic behaviour and thinking, but depressive illness, nervous exhaustion and being "spent".

In the worst examples of the illness it can escalate into psychotic breaks and delusions of more than grandeur or the individual is not actually exhibiting narcissism but has some sort of sociopathy or psychopathy (the lack of conscience).
 

Thalassa

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Narcissism in the pathological sense is not indicative of high self-worth - in fact the opposite is often true. The person tries to deflect away from their own insecurity and self-esteem issues by bullying others or trying to make others feel less than.

Narcissists are extremely harmful to their children, and to people with whom they enter intimate relationships, and in severe cases are dangerous people.

I find pathological narcissism to be *the* number 1 most intolerable personality disorder, personally. Ugh.
 
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