• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Narcissism, a GOOD trait

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Each one of us needs to be loved unconditionally as babies. And if we are loved uncondtionally, we can move on to meeting our further developmental needs.

However if we are not loved unconditionally, we take these unmet needs into adulthood. And when such an early developmental need is not met, then it is likely further developmental needs will also not be met. And we will remain stunted all our lives.

But the interesting thing is that if we live in prosperous countries with a good food supply, our bodies will grow and develop while only our psyches will be stunted.

And in prosperous countries we get a second chance. If our mother or our parents or our carers were unable to love us unconditionally as babies, we get a second chance of unconditional love with a professional therapist.

So babies have a normal, narcissistic need to be loved unconditionally, but if this narcissistic need is not met, the unmet need can carry over into adulthood and the narcissistic personality.

While I agree that people who are not loved for themselves i.e. pushed by the American cultural standard to be loved for one's achievements, accomplishments, for "being special" ... and also being "cared for" by being bought things rather than spending time with the child, rather than just being loved for the essential person they are...can easily become narcissists.

I don't know what having enough food has to do with it, though. I think a person who has enough to eat could still be loved and taught real values by their parents, and be truly cared for in a psychological and spiritual manner as well as physical.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
1- still needs altruism.
2- farmer and turnip.
3- I have a speech impediment that makes everything I say sound sarcastic.
4- Self-serving means to serve the self. If changing answers on subsequent tests isn't serving you, who or what is it serving.
5- ok.
6- example: "I mean, those with altruistic lifestyles, low self esteem, low ego or low self confidence usually don't get a whole lot done. "" just because you say "I mean" doesn't mean that the meaning of what you say gets changed. The statement sounds arrogant, and is a generalization against several groups of people.
1- disagree. at least, I think the need for altruism is few and far between. just because I'm not willing to die for my country does not mean I'm not a patriot. (bad example, I don't consider myself a patriot either lol)
3- it's called Introverted Feeling. you're nice most the time but you get an attitude when you are offended by something ethically. no hate here :)
4- your implied accusation is false. I took the test again trying to answer how I normally would respond as opposed to responding based on my mood which I was a little guilty of the first time. arguing the legitimacy of the questions is not self serving either. the intention of changing the answers to appear more how I would like to to myself would be self serving.
6- I concede, this was an over generalization. still, I believe there to still be a strong correlation
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
The Needs of our Psyches

While I agree that people who are not loved for themselves i.e. pushed by the American cultural standard to be loved for one's achievements, accomplishments, for "being special" ... and also being "cared for" by being bought things rather than spending time with the child, rather than just being loved for the essential person they are...can easily become narcissists.

I don't know what having enough food has to do with it, though. I think a person who has enough to eat could still be loved and taught real values by their parents, and be truly cared for in a psychological and spiritual manner as well as physical.

I think I was saying that in properous countries the material needs of babies are well met, but we are just learning to met the needs of their psyches.

Or I could say we are so well off now we can devote our energies to meeting the needs of our psyches. After all we live in the therapeutic society, California has a Commission for Self Esteem, and as we look around us, we find this very site is devoted to our psyches.

In my opinion, we come here under the aegis of MBTI to meet our psychological needs.

So MBTI functions as a defence of the psyche, while we very, very slowly learn to meet various needs of our respective psyches that we can hardly bear to articulate.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
1- welcome to Narcissismville. Population: you.
3- the scientific name is humorous hilarious.
4- I find it amusing that you find accusations everywhere when I am simply stating facts.
6- Based. On. What.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
P.s. Altruism doesn't have to be so dramatic as "patriotism.". I am thinking about the day to day altruism that occurs all over. Mothers caring for their children. Husbands taking on two jobs so they can provide for their family. Etc. Etc.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I'd be interested to know how therapists even get through to narcissists. They seem to be almost impossible to get through to...I mean, confront them directly and act toward them the way they act toward you or others, and they just hate you or even get aggressive in extreme cases...and otherwise it just seems like people have to pacify them or enable them. They also tend to miss underhanded mocking that other people would pick up on, you know - those little social cues that shame most people into not acting like a total twat.

So how do you not 1) waste your time arguing with a brick wall, and also not 2) enable their monstrous asses? Because laypeople tend to do one of those two things, or just ignore the narcissist.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
1- welcome to Narcissismville. Population: you.
3- the scientific name is humorous hilarious.
4- I find it amusing that you find accusations everywhere when I am simply stating facts.
6- Based. On. What.

I am unconvinced that I am a true narcissist for reasons that
1) I do not feel entitled to better treatment or gifts of any kind. that being said, I am rather disgusted when I receive poor service if I've paid money for it. I will not allow people to sell me short
2) I'm at least moderately empathetic and very affectionate
3) I enjoy finding out when I'm wrong. the problem is that so few people are willing to tell me or fail to point out specifically what is wrong (welcome to being enneatype 8 lol)
4) I have respect for people do frequently factor in their well being to my decisions as needed
5) while I do consider myself extremely superior :cool: it doesn't mean that I consider others inferior. they can do what they want, but I only accept the best and I intend to get it.
however, I will admit that I have a strongly narcissistic personality and I am now considering the possibiility of getting professionally evaluated for narcissism once I have sufficient capital

in regards to your other post, you have mentioned on the the exceptions in which I feel being altruistic is very crucial, and that's family. even then though, a mother benefits from raising a child on many levels, but lets just keep it simple and say that she loves her child and that feeling is very satisfying. also, raising a child is accepting responsibility for a decision to have kids usually. it has more to do with fullfilling responsibilities you've agreed to than altruism in most cases

Edit: in regards to point 5, there are a few exceptions to this that I struggle with as mentioned in a previous posts, but my overall philosophy is not that other people are inferior
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I am unconvinced that I am a true narcissist for reasons that
1) I do not feel entitled to better treatment or gifts of any kind. that being said, I am rather disgusted when I receive poor service if I've paid money for it. I will not allow people to sell me short
2) I'm at least moderately empathetic and very affectionate
3) I enjoy finding out when I'm wrong. the problem is that so few people are willing to tell me or fail to point out specifically what is wrong (welcome to being enneatype 8 lol)
4) I have respect for people do frequently factor in their well being to my decisions as needed
5) while I do consider myself extremely superior :cool: it doesn't mean that I consider others inferior. they can do what they want, but I only accept the best and I intend to get it.
however, I will admit that I have a strongly narcissistic personality and I am now considering the possibiility of getting professionally evaluated for narcissism once I have sufficient capital

in regards to your other post, you have mentioned on the the exceptions in which I feel being altruistic is very crucial, and that's family. even then though, a mother benefits from raising a child on many levels, but lets just keep it simple and say that she loves her child and that feeling is very satisfying. also, raising a child is accepting responsibility for a decision to have kids usually. it has more to do with fullfilling responsibilities you've agreed to than altruism in most cases

Edit: in regards to point 5, there are a few exceptions to this that I struggle with as mentioned in a previous posts, but my overall philosophy is not that other people are inferior

On what grounds do you say that you are "extremely superior"? It seems on par with TG's statement that she's almost never wrong.

Or whats-her-name's assertion that she knows somehow (magically?) that I'm not altruistic or wouldn't retain my rational philosophical belief in social democracy if I were very wealthy?

Today isn't Sunday. It's Delusionalday.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
On what grounds do you say that you are "extremely superior"? It seems on par with TG's statement that she's almost never wrong.
Or whats-her-name's assertion that she knows somehow (magically?) that I'm not altruistic or wouldn't retain my rational philosophical belief in social democracy if I were very wealthy?

Today isn't Sunday. It's Delusionalday.

not in the least. I admit I'm wrong all the time. I would not trully be superior if my superiority was based in my being right. if that were the case, being superior would be almost impossible without decades of constant, fast paced learning and experience. if my superiority was based in anything external, I would not feel superior at all. I am a 19 year old, broke, normal looking, naive and experience lacking college student whom is not physically successful by any stretch of the word. if I were broke on the streets of India, wearing wraps and shoveling poop for a living, I would still feel just as superior as I do now. I am superior because I value myself, love myself unconditionally and because I choose to think I'm superior. it's really that simple, anyone can do it.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Okay, well today I'm going to imagine that I'm a princess, okay?

I don't want to be left out of Delusionalday.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
please check out my new poll on the same subject :laugh:
 

INTP

Active member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
7,803
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx
NPD was associated with mental disability among men but not women. High co-occurrence rates of substance use, mood, and anxiety disorders and other personality disorders were observed. With additional comorbidity controlled for, associations with bipolar I disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, and schizotypal and borderline personality disorders remained significant, but weakened, among men and women.

=======================================================================================================
Prevalence, correlates, disability, and comorbidity of DSM-IV narcissistic personality disorder: results from the wave 2 national epidemiologic survey on alcohol and related conditions.

Stinson FS, Dawson DA, Goldstein RB, Chou SP, Huang B, Smith SM, Ruan WJ, Pulay AJ, Saha TD, Pickering RP, Grant BF.

Laboratory of Epidemiology and Biometry, Division of Intramural Clinical and Biological Research, National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD 20892-9304, USA.
Abstract

OBJECTIVES: To present nationally representative findings on prevalence, sociodemographic correlates, disability, and comorbidity of narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) among men and women.

METHOD: Face-to-face interviews with 34,653 adults participating in the Wave 2 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions conducted between 2004 and 2005 in the United States.

RESULTS: Prevalence of lifetime NPD was 6.2%, with rates greater for men (7.7%) than for women (4.8%). NPD was significantly more prevalent among black men and women and Hispanic women, younger adults, and separated/divorced/widowed and never married adults. NPD was associated with mental disability among men but not women. High co-occurrence rates of substance use, mood, and anxiety disorders and other personality disorders were observed. With additional comorbidity controlled for, associations with bipolar I disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, and schizotypal and borderline personality disorders remained significant, but weakened, among men and women. Similar associations were observed between NPD and specific phobia, generalized anxiety disorder, and bipolar II disorder among women and between NPD and alcohol abuse, alcohol dependence, drug dependence, and histrionic and obsessive-compulsive personality disorders among men. Dysthymic disorder was significantly and negatively associated with NPD.

CONCLUSIONS: NPD is a prevalent personality disorder in the general U.S. population and is associated with considerable disability among men, whose rates exceed those of women. NPD may not be as stable as previously recognized or described in the DSM-IV. The results highlight the need for further research from numerous perspectives to identify the unique and common genetic and environmental factors underlying the disorder-specific associations with NPD observed in this study.

okay. why didnt you post this at first instead of some out of date scores with poor validity? you happen to know whats the comorbidity with the new version?


Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a mental illness

no its not, its a personality disorder like the name suggests
 

INTP

Active member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
7,803
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx
from what I've gathered so far, it seems like what seperates a healthy narcissistic personality from someone with narcissistic personality disorder is being unable or unwilling to think about other people at all and refusal or inability to value or respect other people. essentially, it sounds like a combination of healthy narcissism with antisocial personality disorder and touches of histrionic personality disorder.

personality disorders can be seen as really unhealthy(enough to be diagnosed) traits of personality. when you look at for example histrionic from an MBTI point of view, you could say that its an really unhealthy trait of extraverted person who makes decisions with malfunctioning F. by malfunctioning F, i mean making decisions with it, but missing things like genuine empathy that normal people get from the function, and just uses T to make all the unhealthy F needs happen. instead of using T to make the first decision about for example should i act this way, he uses it to just think about how can i make this happen.

now when you look at people with some traits of narcissism for example, but not that strong traits that it could be diagnosed as personality disorder and would just fall into a category of narcissistic in its general speaking term. from MBTI point of view, those can also be seen as unhealthy function usage, but not being that severe cases. loving yourself or having a high self esteem doesent make you a narcissistic person, but what does make you a narcissistic is when you take these things to a unhealthy levels, whether those levels are high enough to have a personality disorder or just narcissistic in its general term.

in conclusion there is no healthy narcissism of any type, healthy people can have some traits of narcissistic person, but he is not a narcissistic unless those traits are taken into unhealthy levels.
 

King sns

New member
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
6,714
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a mental illness while narcissistic personality is simply a personality.

And while those with Narcissistic Personality Disorder lead disordered lives, those with a narcissistic personality are often quite successful, like CEOs.

I think the problem is that Narcissistic Personality Disorder and narcissistic personality are almost the same words and so they are easily confused.

Hmm.. you know that's funny. Kind of a different topic, but I always thought that personality disorders are impossible to treat because it's like saying... "your personality is a big disorder, lets fix your personality" ... like trying to remove the disorder without changing the person's personality may be impossible. (Key phrase: "I always thought".. I'm not stating it as a fact.)
 

INTP

Active member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
7,803
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx
Hmm.. you know that's funny. Kind of a different topic, but I always thought that personality disorders are impossible to treat because it's like saying... "your personality is a big disorder, lets fix your personality" ... like trying to remove the disorder without changing the person's personality may be impossible. (Key phrase: "I always thought".. I'm not stating it as a fact.)

they can be treated, but it can be extremely hard and it might be impossible to get rid of the disorder completely. in some cases like narcissistic, people dont even want any treatment for the disorder, because they dont see anything wrong in themselves, even tho other people do. i think MBTI could be a good instrument for treatment in some disorders, because it allows people to understand themselves and training the functions that arent used enough or are used in negative ways might potentially help them. no studies have done about using MBTI as instrument in treatment, so its just speculation
 

Stanton Moore

morose bourgeoisie
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
3,900
MBTI Type
INFP
Each one of us needs to be loved unconditionally as babies. And if we are loved uncondtionally, we can move on to meeting our further developmental needs.

However if we are not loved unconditionally, we take these unmet needs into adulthood. And when such an early developmental need is not met, then it is likely further developmental needs will also not be met. And we will remain stunted all our lives.

But the interesting thing is that if we live in prosperous countries with a good food supply, our bodies will grow and develop while only our psyches will be stunted.

And in prosperous countries we get a second chance. If our mother or our parents or our carers were unable to love us unconditionally as babies, we get a second chance of unconditional love with a professional therapist.

So babies have a normal, narcissistic need to be loved unconditionally, but if this narcissistic need is not met, the unmet need can carry over into adulthood and the narcissistic personality.

This is the truth.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
I am unconvinced that I am a true narcissist for reasons that
1) I do not feel entitled to better treatment or gifts of any kind. that being said, I am rather disgusted when I receive poor service if I've paid money for it. I will not allow people to sell me short
2) I'm at least moderately empathetic and very affectionate
3) I enjoy finding out when I'm wrong. the problem is that so few people are willing to tell me or fail to point out specifically what is wrong (welcome to being enneatype 8 lol)
4) I have respect for people do frequently factor in their well being to my decisions as needed
5) while I do consider myself extremely superior :cool: it doesn't mean that I consider others inferior. they can do what they want, but I only accept the best and I intend to get it.
however, I will admit that I have a strongly narcissistic personality and I am now considering the possibiility of getting professionally evaluated for narcissism once I have sufficient capital

in regards to your other post, you have mentioned on the the exceptions in which I feel being altruistic is very crucial, and that's family. even then though, a mother benefits from raising a child on many levels, but lets just keep it simple and say that she loves her child and that feeling is very satisfying. also, raising a child is accepting responsibility for a decision to have kids usually. it has more to do with fullfilling responsibilities you've agreed to than altruism in most cases

Edit: in regards to point 5, there are a few exceptions to this that I struggle with as mentioned in a previous posts, but my overall philosophy is not that other people are inferior

i·ro·ny1    /ˈaɪrəni, ˈaɪər-/ Show Spelled
[ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-] Show IPA

–noun, plural -nies.
1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.
2. Literature .
a. a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.
b. (especially in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., especially as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion.

 
Top