Narcissism, a GOOD trait

[Elfboy]

Oh, you must be in college. Or high school. I thought I was a communist in high school. I think young people can get carried away with extremist ideologies before they properly learn and think things through.

Well, eventually, hopefully, you'll come to understand that objectivism isn't...well, it's not real.

you are correct that I am in college, but I find your implication that being an objectivist makes one childish or immature to be disrespectful towards a large group of people many whom are mature, balanced and healthy

 

[Thalassa]

you are correct that I am in college, but I find your implication that being an objectivist makes one childish or immature to be disrespectful towards a large group of people many whom are mature, balanced and healthy

That's fine, I'll disrespect objectivists all day long, I'm completely fine with that - they choose to be objectivists. I'm not disrespecting them for their age, race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or country of birth. Some people must be stopped, I firmly believe this to be a valid ethical truth in life.

There are no such thing as objective ethics, and there's no such thing as objectively good art - that's why objectivism isn't real. It's kind of like saying Christianity is the one true faith. I mean, it's nice that you believe that, as long as realize there's no rational basis for it.

That's what makes objectivists so dangerous - they think their ethics are objective. Scary shit, man.

 

[Elfboy]

from what I've gathered so far, it seems like what seperates a healthy narcissistic personality from someone with narcissistic personality disorder is being unable or unwilling to think about other people at all and refusal or inability to value or respect other people. essentially, it sounds like a combination of healthy narcissism with antisocial personality disorder and touches of histrionic personality disorder.

 

[Elfboy]

That's fine, I'll disrespect objectivists all day long, I'm completely fine with that - they choose to be objectivists. I'm not disrespecting them for their age, race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or country of birth. Some people must be stopped, I firmly believe this to be a valid ethical truth in life.

There are no such thing as objective ethics, and there's no such thing as objectively good art - that's why objectivism isn't real. It's kind of like saying Christianity is the one true faith. I mean, it's nice that you believe that, as long as realize there's no rational basis for it.

That's what makes objectivists so dangerous - they think their ethics are objective. Scary shit, man.

that's not what objectivism is. objectivism is simply placing your own needs before others and giving back only when you can afford to do so without hurting yourself in some way. I agree with you, morals are not objective not is appreciation of art.

Edit: fair enough, I will disrespect communist and those who do not value freedom, individualism or personal integrity all day as well. not that I'm accusing you of this

 

[Thalassa]

that's not what objectivism is. objectivism is simply placing your own needs before others and giving back only when you can afford to do so without hurting yourself in some way. I agree with you, morals are not objective not is appreciation of art.

Objectivism is the claim that ethics are objective, oh yes it is.

 

[Thalassa]

from what I've gathered so far, it seems like what seperates a healthy narcissistic personality from someone with narcissistic personality disorder is being unable or unwilling to think about other people at all and refusal or inability to value or respect other people. essentially, it sounds like a combination of healthy narcissism with antisocial personality disorder and touches of histrionic personality disorder.

Yeah it's like people who never think they're wrong, or have no insight into their own behavior, and don't like to admit their own weaknesses...even to themselves.

 

[Elfboy]

Yeah it's like people who never think they're wrong, or have no insight into their own behavior, and don't like to admit their own weaknesses...even to themselves.

in that regard, being a successful entrepreneur or businessman requires you to be the opposite of that. profitability can have no bias

 

[Giggly]

Yeah it's like people who never think they're wrong, or have no insight into their own behavior, and don't like to admit their own weaknesses...even to themselves.

I guess some people just aren't interested in growing or ever improving.

 

[Anew Leaf]

could you elaborate? I have trouble seeing how a post that mentions absolutely nothing about myself is self indulgent.
PS: I won't denying being moderately self indulgent, but I do try not to be more than slightly so outwardly. you see, it's really a lot like masturbating. it's all well and good, but no one wants to see it in public.

Sure.

Welcome to Saturned's Tour of This Thread. Please fasten your seatbelts and keep your arms inside the car at all times.

Post 1:
"I would argue that mild to moderate narcissism is a very good thing at that some level of it is necessary for success
1) high self esteem and secure self image
2) love of self
3) high ego ie, desiring status, glamour, comfort, luxury and money
4) ambition
5) self first, others second = less hastle taking care of your own needs
6) high confidence in self and abilities

pursueing a career in entrepreneurship or performance would be almost impossible without at least a low level of narcissism. I mean, those with altruistic lifestyles, low self esteem, low ego or low self confidence usually don't get a whole lot done. "

I would argue that your post has 0 science in it, but 100% conjecture based on.... your own opinion. In fact, you ignore actual science done by actual scientists, in favor of.... your own opinion. Perhaps it is a form of opposite-irony that you are exhibiting the very same trait that you are talking about in a manner that is contrary to well, most everyone* else. *Small sampling error with a +/- percentage that coincides with the prevalence of narcissists to society.

Your list is 100% self-indulgent, but others have pointed it out already. I will simply focus on point #5, or as we on our tour shall now call it: Bingo.

The part in bold... I don't even know where to begin other than: what? the? fuck? Yes, Mother Theresa did absolutely nothing. Her "good works", much like the "moon landing" are pretty much just photoshopped propaganda.

Next on our tour:

"is there a test to see if you're narcissistic? I think I might be a little bit "

Narcissism may be one of the few disorders that people would find fun to have. That and "bi-winning."

On our right side you can see a herd of triceratops munching on jurassic plants that we conveniently haven't bothered to explain how we got them.

"I scored a 32 out of 40. average for americans is 15.
Your score for Authority is HIGH
Your score for Self-sufficiency is HIGH
Your score for Superiority is HIGH
Your score for Exhibitionism is HIGH
Your score for Exploitativeness is MEDIUM
Your score for Vanity is HIGH
Your score for Entitlement is HIGH

damn, maybe I'm a little more of a narcissist than I thought. in all honesty though, I didn't like a lot of the questions. I think my entitlement and exploitativeness are actualy extremely low (I demand the best, but I don't want people to just give it to me. I take what I want), and my exhibitionism is probably a little lower. I also didn't how the questions pit you against everyone else. I care about other people's best interests, but it's a choice between other people's best interest or my own, I'm taking care of my own no questions asked. being an objectivist does not make one a narcissist. similarly, I don't much want authority over people, but if they try to gain authority over me, I'm going to dominate their ass lol. also, I don't really expect anything of other people if they stay out of my way. all in all, I think my scores should look more like this:

Authority MEDIUM-HIGH
Self-sufficiency is HIGH
Superiority is HIGH
Exhibitionism is MEDIUM-LOW
Exploitativeness is LOW
Vanity is HIGH
Entitlement is LOW "

So.... you take a test seeing where you fit into things on a narcissitic scale... and low and behold you find out that you are a narcissist and the first thing you do is complain about how the test isn't accurate because of XYZ and how you would personally score yourself.

Side note: true caring is putting others needs before your own. So saying "I care about other people's best interests, but it's a choice between other people's best interest or my own, I'm taking care of my own no questions asked" renders the concept of caring moot and invalid by your own definition.

If you are squeamish then I suggest that you look to the left side of your car because we are about to make a 25 lb goat appear magically to help feed an 8 ton T-Rex.

"took it again and got 28. this seems about where I would rate myself
Your score for Authority is HIGH
Your score for Self-sufficiency is MEDIUM
Your score for Superiority is HIGH
Your score for Exhibitionism is MEDIUM
Your score for Exploitativeness is MEDIUM
Your score for Vanity is HIGH
Your score for Entitlement is MEDIUM

I think my self sufficiency HIGH and my Entitlement is Low, but other than that, I think it was more accurate this time around "

Translation: Ah, I still didn't get quite the results I wanted... those pesky questions that figured out my entitlement needs!

Why even bother to take this test if you are just going to make up whatever answer you wanted? Ah yes, more attention and self-indulgance.

And the last item on our tour, because let's face it: time for pudding, is just up ahead. Please make sure to roll the windows of the car up so that the poisonous dinosaurs don't spit at you, causing irreversible blindness as they pull out your entrails to feast on.

"I don't particularly care one way or the other. that being said, I think anyone with anyone with high confidence and high self esteem would probably score much high than 15 on this test. "

Can you direct me to the polling place where presidents, CEO's, moms, dads, gymnasts, bunnies, non-sociopathic serial killers, all put their 2 cents in to give you this golden nugget of truth?

Thank you for riding with Saturned's magical ride. Please stay tuned for when her tour of Jupiter opens in the fall!

 

[Elfboy]

Sure.

Welcome to Saturned's Tour of This Thread. Please fasten your seatbelts and keep your arms inside the car at all times.

Post 1:
"I would argue that mild to moderate narcissism is a very good thing at that some level of it is necessary for success
1) high self esteem and secure self image
2) love of self
3) high ego ie, desiring status, glamour, comfort, luxury and money
4) ambition
5) self first, others second = less hastle taking care of your own needs
6) high confidence in self and abilities

pursueing a career in entrepreneurship or performance would be almost impossible without at least a low level of narcissism. I mean, those with altruistic lifestyles, low self esteem, low ego or low self confidence usually don't get a whole lot done. "

I would argue that your post has 0 science in it, but 100% conjecture based on.... your own opinion. In fact, you ignore actual science done by actual scientists, in favor of.... your own opinion. Perhaps it is a form of opposite-irony that you are exhibiting the very same trait that you are talking about in a manner that is contrary to well, most everyone* else. *Small sampling error with a +/- percentage that coincides with the prevalence of narcissists to society.

Your list is 100% self-indulgent, but others have pointed it out already. I will simply focus on point #5, or as we on our tour shall now call it: Bingo.

The part in bold... I don't even know where to begin other than: what? the? fuck? Yes, Mother Theresa did absolutely nothing. Her "good works", much like the "moon landing" are pretty much just photoshopped propaganda.

Next on our tour:

"is there a test to see if you're narcissistic? I think I might be a little bit "

Narcissism may be one of the few disorders that people would find fun to have. That and "bi-winning."

On our right side you can see a herd of triceratops munching on jurassic plants that we conveniently haven't bothered to explain how we got them.

"I scored a 32 out of 40. average for americans is 15.
Your score for Authority is HIGH
Your score for Self-sufficiency is HIGH
Your score for Superiority is HIGH
Your score for Exhibitionism is HIGH
Your score for Exploitativeness is MEDIUM
Your score for Vanity is HIGH
Your score for Entitlement is HIGH

damn, maybe I'm a little more of a narcissist than I thought. in all honesty though, I didn't like a lot of the questions. I think my entitlement and exploitativeness are actualy extremely low (I demand the best, but I don't want people to just give it to me. I take what I want), and my exhibitionism is probably a little lower. I also didn't how the questions pit you against everyone else. I care about other people's best interests, but it's a choice between other people's best interest or my own, I'm taking care of my own no questions asked. being an objectivist does not make one a narcissist. similarly, I don't much want authority over people, but if they try to gain authority over me, I'm going to dominate their ass lol. also, I don't really expect anything of other people if they stay out of my way. all in all, I think my scores should look more like this:

Authority MEDIUM-HIGH
Self-sufficiency is HIGH
Superiority is HIGH
Exhibitionism is MEDIUM-LOW
Exploitativeness is LOW
Vanity is HIGH
Entitlement is LOW "

So.... you take a test seeing where you fit into things on a narcissitic scale... and low and behold you find out that you are a narcissist and the first thing you do is complain about how the test isn't accurate because of XYZ and how you would personally score yourself.

Side note: true caring is putting others needs before your own. So saying "I care about other people's best interests, but it's a choice between other people's best interest or my own, I'm taking care of my own no questions asked" renders the concept of caring moot and invalid by your own definition.

If you are squeamish then I suggest that you look to the left side of your car because we are about to make a 25 lb goat appear magically to help feed an 8 ton T-Rex.

"took it again and got 28. this seems about where I would rate myself
Your score for Authority is HIGH
Your score for Self-sufficiency is MEDIUM
Your score for Superiority is HIGH
Your score for Exhibitionism is MEDIUM
Your score for Exploitativeness is MEDIUM
Your score for Vanity is HIGH
Your score for Entitlement is MEDIUM

I think my self sufficiency HIGH and my Entitlement is Low, but other than that, I think it was more accurate this time around "

Translation: Ah, I still didn't get quite the results I wanted... those pesky questions that figured out my entitlement needs!

Why even bother to take this test if you are just going to make up whatever answer you wanted? Ah yes, more attention and self-indulgance.

And the last item on our tour, because let's face it: time for pudding, is just up ahead. Please make sure to roll the windows of the car up so that the poisonous dinosaurs don't spit at you, causing irreversible blindness as they pull out your entrails to feast on.

"I don't particularly care one way or the other. that being said, I think anyone with anyone with high confidence and high self esteem would probably score much high than 15 on this test. "

Can you direct me to the polling place where presidents, CEO's, moms, dads, gymnasts, bunnies, non-sociopathic serial killers, all put their 2 cents in to give you this golden nugget of truth?

Thank you for riding with Saturned's magical ride. Please stay tuned for when her tour of Jupiter opens in the fall!

...oh dear, I seem to have greatly upset you, very well this should be amusing
1) true caring does not mean placing others needs before your own. being a self preserving individual is not a sin.
2) tests are not designed to tell you what you are, that's what psychological councilling is for. tests are intended to be an indicator. all practioners of MBTI, Enneagram, personality instruments, psychological disorder instruments and trained psychologists will tell you this
3) your presentation of data is against me is impressive and informative, but please safe the character assassinating commentary, it's a waste of time and energy for both of us. I asked why specifically you thought I was self serving. I did not ask your opinion of me which I do not care about.
4) disagreement with test results is not self serving. it is possible that I do possesss such negative qualities that I do not see in myself, but not thinking they're there does not make one self serving
5) i am not the type to deny my faults. I will be the first to tell you I struggle with superiority issues, discipline, routine and motivation, but I would be foolish to believe every flaw about myself that a test or another person brought up to me. disagreeable does not equal close minded
6) I cannot direct you to a site that says CEOs, successful people and such have validated my claims. my conclusions are tendentative as I believe I've stated

 

[Giggly]

hey, look at that! A narcissistic INFP. *stares*

 

[Santosha]

...oh dear, I seem to have greatly upset you, very well this should be amusing
1) true caring does not mean placing others needs before your own. being a self preserving individual is not a sin.
2) tests are not designed to tell you what you are, that's what psychological councilling is for. tests are intended to be an indicator. all practioners of MBTI, Enneagram, personality instruments, psychological disorder instruments and trained psychologists will tell you this
3) your presentation of data is against me is impressive and informative, but please safe the character assassinating commentary, it's a waste of time and energy for both of us. I asked why specifically you thought I was self serving. I did not ask your opinion of me which I do not care about.
4) disagreement with test results is not self serving. it is possible that I do possesss such negative qualities that I do not see in myself, but not thinking they're there does not make one self serving
5) i am not the type to deny my faults. I will be the first to tell you I struggle with superiority issues, discipline, routine and motivation, but I would be foolish to believe every flaw about myself that a test or another person brought up to me. disagreeable does not equal close minded
6) I cannot direct you to a site that says CEOs, successful people and such have validated my claims. my conclusions are tendentative as I believe I've stated

Bravo Elfboy! I will say this, whether your a narcissist or not, I truly admire your ability to stay on topic and avoid personal attacks. That quality is becomming quite a gem in some of these discussions.

 

[Elfboy]

Bravo Elfboy! I will say this, whether your a narcissist or not, I truly admire your ability to stay on topic and avoid personal attacks. That quality is becomming quite a gem in some of these discussions.

thanks

 

[Magic Poriferan]

A case study.

How would you describe Mohandas Gandhi as narcissistic?

 

[Anew Leaf]

hey, look at that! A narcissistic INFP. *stares*

! where?!

 

[Mole]

The proper narcissistic needs of babies

Each one of us needs to be loved unconditionally as babies. And if we are loved uncondtionally, we can move on to meeting our further developmental needs.

However if we are not loved unconditionally, we take these unmet needs into adulthood. And when such an early developmental need is not met, then it is likely further developmental needs will also not be met. And we will remain stunted all our lives.

But the interesting thing is that if we live in prosperous countries with a good food supply, our bodies will grow and develop while only our psyches will be stunted.

And in prosperous countries we get a second chance. If our mother or our parents or our carers were unable to love us unconditionally as babies, we get a second chance of unconditional love with a professional therapist.

So babies have a normal, narcissistic need to be loved unconditionally, but if this narcissistic need is not met, the unmet need can carry over into adulthood and the narcissistic personality.

 

[Anew Leaf]

...oh dear, I seem to have greatly upset you, very well this should be amusing
1) true caring does not mean placing others needs before your own. being a self preserving individual is not a sin.
2) tests are not designed to tell you what you are, that's what psychological councilling is for. tests are intended to be an indicator. all practioners of MBTI, Enneagram, personality instruments, psychological disorder instruments and trained psychologists will tell you this
3) your presentation of data is against me is impressive and informative, but please safe the character assassinating commentary, it's a waste of time and energy for both of us. I asked why specifically you thought I was self serving. I did not ask your opinion of me which I do not care about.
4) disagreement with test results is not self serving. it is possible that I do possesss such negative qualities that I do not see in myself, but not thinking they're there does not make one self serving
5) i am not the type to deny my faults. I will be the first to tell you I struggle with superiority issues, discipline, routine and motivation, but I would be foolish to believe every flaw about myself that a test or another person brought up to me. disagreeable does not equal close minded
6) I cannot direct you to a site that says CEOs, successful people and such have validated my claims. my conclusions are tendentative as I believe I've stated

Not particularly upset, but thanks for checking.

You asked, I pointed out my opinions based on what you wrote.

1- So.... what is your definition of "True caring" then?
2- Uh, no. Counseling perhaps can definitively say say, yes you have this problem! But you don't need a farmer in order to determine whether a root vegetable is a turnip or not.
3- Character assassination? Where?
4- Actually yes it is.
5- You cannot change something without first acknowledging it.
6- I saw several grand sweeping generalizations and mistakenly assumed that there was something to back them up.

 

[Elfboy]

Not particularly upset, but thanks for checking.

You asked, I pointed out my opinions based on what you wrote.

1- So.... what is your definition of "True caring" then?
2- Uh, no.
3- Character assassination? Where?
4- Actually yes it is.
5- You cannot change something without first acknowledging it.
6- I saw several grand sweeping generalizations and mistakenly assumed that there was something to back them up.

1- true care is having an emotional connection with someone or something, respecting their rights and wishing for their benefit
2- yes, but you don't have to take my word for it. any official site relating to sociology, psychology or psychiatry will tell you the same thing
3- some of your comments were unnecessesarily biting and some of them were unnecessary and distracting. however, as I am too lazy to point them out, I won't say anything more about this
4- same as point 2
5- we are in agreement here. however I am arguing a different point that not initially recognizing certain characteristics in one's self is not the same as ignoring them or trying to cover them up. my last post gave a few areas that I am conscious of needing to work on.
6- what you saw was several self observed correlations (hence frequent use of "probably" "it would seem" "my guess is" "I think that" etc), you are probably confused because my communicate style is extremely direct and assertive even when making conjectures. this causes many people to view me as close minded, rigid and more well informed than I actually am. I may not be an expert, but I am staunchly opposed to self depreciation except on a purely objective level such as mentioned in point 5

Edit: thankyou for giving to opportunity to excercise large amounts of Te. this is another skill in which I know I need significant growth in.

 

[guesswho]

 

[Anew Leaf]

1- still needs altruism.
2- farmer and turnip.
3- I have a speech impediment that makes everything I say sound sarcastic.
4- Self-serving means to serve the self. If changing answers on subsequent tests isn't serving you, who or what is it serving.
5- ok.
6- example: "I mean, those with altruistic lifestyles, low self esteem, low ego or low self confidence usually don't get a whole lot done. "" just because you say "I mean" doesn't mean that the meaning of what you say gets changed. The statement sounds arrogant, and is a generalization against several groups of people.