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Narcissism, a GOOD trait

Elfboy

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is there a test to see if you're narcissistic? I think I might be a little bit :laugh:
 

King sns

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So, I assume at this point most people on the thread will start arguing?

Being narcissistic isn't all that bad for the one who suffers from the disorder, it's actually so good that a very high percentage of them don't want to give it up. Don't want to handle their shit.

They may not want to seek help because they lack insight, as well. (Like lots of other personality disorders)
 

Lark

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Incidentially the world's in a bad, bad state if this kind of state is considered enviable or is practically advantageous, if even only temporarily.
 

King sns

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You cant have moderate narcissism, its not a super charged legitimate self-interest, esteem and confidence its a pathological disorder.

The behaviour and rationalisations that a narcissist presents to the world are in reality an overcompensation for secret but crushing doubts, they are the opposite in reality or in fact to what they appear.

Consequently their highly "deployed" or "defensive" natures makes them ill suited for any kind of treatment, they're likely to suspect that they're being "played" for a sap, a lot of the time if they come into treatment its not acknowledgely for what the root cause of their suffering is, the narcissistic behaviour and thinking, but depressive illness, nervous exhaustion and being "spent".

In the worst examples of the illness it can escalate into psychotic breaks and delusions of more than grandeur or the individual is not actually exhibiting narcissism but has some sort of sociopathy or psychopathy (the lack of conscience).

Can't narcissism be known as a trait as well, though, rather than always being a disorder?
 

King sns

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Incidentially the world's in a bad, bad state if this kind of state is considered enviable or is practically advantageous, if even only temporarily.

No, not the world. Just Elfboy :)

I imagine it could be enviable kind of like mania is enviable for anyone who's experienced it.

(Edit: I am really glad I came across this thread... I had been close to someone narcissistic and didn't realize it, and I always said things about him like, "he's cocky. He lacks insight into anyone around him or himself. It seems like someone like that could really become psychotic or hurtful. I'm glad I can put a likely name to the problem, now. It wasn't just me. )
 

Thalassa

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So, I assume at this point most people on the thread will start arguing?

Being narcissistic isn't all that bad for the one who suffers from the disorder, it's actually so good that a very high percentage of them don't want to give it up. Don't want to handle their shit.

Most of what I know is from what I've observed, and a little online research.
It's interesting how they appear so cool, but when you take a closer look at the long term behavior you can observe all sorts of weird shit.

Most of the weird shit is in stress periods. That's when people notice that there's something odd about their self esteem.
Some of them may enjoy hurting, subjugating people on purpose, just to exibit some sense of power. Some of them may also be antisocial and usually belittle people, considering them all ugly idiots.

Some may view the world and people in ups and downs. Admiring intensely some person for a while, and then switching their opinions radically, considering them idiots, and continuing the pattern with other people, always finding someone new.

Some may be obsessed with social status, and will use/manipulate people to achieve their goals.

They also show a big time lack of empathy.

Weirdness is interesting.

However, short term interaction with them won't show much wrong. They're pretty impressive.

That's why I can't stand them. They think everyone else has a problem and they don't. It's one of the most difficult things to treat, along with borderline personality disorder. I still find narcissism to be more repellent, though. I'm still capable of having sympathy for people with BPD.
 

guesswho

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Actually borderline and narcissistic personality disorders are strongly correlated.
And the antisocial thing....
 

King sns

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That's why I can't stand them. They think everyone else has a problem and they don't. It's one of the most difficult things to treat, along with borderline personality disorder. I still find narcissism to be more repellent, though. I'm still capable of having sympathy for people with BPD.

I know! The one who I think had narcissism, is probably the only person that I've ever come close to saying "I hate." "Because he is a bad person." It's a nasty thing.
 

King sns

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Actually borderline and narcissistic personality disorders are strongly correlated.
And the antisocial thing....

That makes sense. Seems like a lot of the people with these disorders have a plethora of comorbidities. I guess if they have other disorders that lack insight, than it could be even worse.
 

Thalassa

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Can't narcissism be known as a trait as well, though, rather than always being a disorder?

Yes, people will sometimes call people who show self-absorbed traits narcissists. The thing is though, narcissism goes beyond being merely self-absorbed. A person can be self-absorbed and still be aware of their own faults and treat other people with relative kindness and respect.
 

Viridian

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is there a test to see if you're narcissistic? I think I might be a little bit :laugh:

I dunno, you've said quite a few times you didn't care about whether or not you had the approval of others and wasn't willing to "suck up" to anybody... that doesn't seem to fit the symptoms, does it? :thinking:
 

Red Herring

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is there a test to see if you're narcissistic? I think I might be a little bit :laugh:

I wont comment on that, but here is a test. There once was a thread where members posted their results, if i remember correctly.
 

guesswho

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I think most of them go unnoticed.
And when I say unnoticed I mean their disorder goes unnoticed.

It seems like almost everybody doesn't see anything wrong in them initially.
 

Lark

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They may not want to seek help because they lack insight, as well. (Like lots of other personality disorders)

Or just a lot of people.

Insight could be insufficient to motivate or incentivise change, there are plenty of people who know the harm they are doing themselves and everyone immediately around them and persist in it, whether its the adrenaline charged investment gambler who doesnt care about bankrupting entire nations or the street drinker, they'll rationalise, redirect and shirk responsibilities.

The problem is that our society isnt exactly culturally resistant to this kind of disorder.
 

Lark

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Can't narcissism be known as a trait as well, though, rather than always being a disorder?

I wouldnt say so, confidence or esteem I would consider traits. Narcissists may exhibit those thraits without possessing them.
 

King sns

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Or just a lot of people.

Insight could be insufficient to motivate or incentivise change, there are plenty of people who know the harm they are doing themselves and everyone immediately around them and persist in it, whether its the adrenaline charged investment gambler who doesnt care about bankrupting entire nations or the street drinker, they'll rationalise, redirect and shirk responsibilities.

The problem is that our society isnt exactly culturally resistant to this kind of disorder.

Well, you're an ENTJ. You would know. ;)
(heh heh.)
 

Lark

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Actually borderline and narcissistic personality disorders are strongly correlated.
And the antisocial thing....

Well the borderline in borderline is bordering between a neurotic character structure, generally a serious one like narcissism, and a psychotic one, although psychotic isnt psychopathy like a lot of people think due to the abbreviation in pop culture, psychotics most of the time are typified by lethargy or apathy, sometimes consequent of accute emotional sensitivity, more than anything else.
 

INTP

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Actually borderline and narcissistic personality disorders are strongly correlated.
And the antisocial thing....

got some studies of that? borderline and antisocial have clear correlation with MBTI NP, while narcissistic pd has correlation with N(not so clear tho). because narcissistic pd has no correlation on MBTI J-P axis, it sound weird that it would have strong correlation with borderline and antisocial since they have clear correlation with P.

subtyp18.gif

(http://www.millon.net/taxonomy/summary.htm)

weird that there is no borderline subtype for narcissistic pd if its strongly correlated with it

or narcissistic subtype for borderline
subtyp8.gif


sure you arent just saying that they are much alike on surface level?
 

Santosha

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Can't narcissism be known as a trait as well, though, rather than always being a disorder?

According to wiki, yes.
"Healthy narcissism is a structural truthfulness of the self, achievement of self and object constancy, synchronization between the self and the superego and a balance between libidinal and aggressive drives (the ability to receive gratification from others and the drive for impulse expression). Healthy narcissism forms a constant, realistic self-interest and mature goals and principles and an ability to form deep object relations."

Freud on Narcissism (the irony)

"Healthy narcissism might exist in all individuals. Freud says that this is an original state from which the individual develops the love object. He argues that healthy narcissism is an essential part of normal development. According to Freud the love of the parents for their child and their attitude toward their child could be seen as a revival and reproduction of their own narcissism. The child has an omnipotence of thought; the parents stimulate that feeling because in their child they see the things that they have never reached themselves. Compared to neutral observations, the parents tend to overvalue the qualities of their child. When parents act in an extreme opposite style and the child is rejected or inconsistently reinforced depending on the mood of the parent, the self-needs of the child are not met."
 
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