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  1. #61
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistopheles View Post
    The first part is true, but I highly doubt the second part; Actually, I would spell it this way: Narcissism is usually good for your personal career, but also usually bad for literally everyone around you because you do everything you can at their expense.

    Also, "mild to moderate narcissism" isn't really a good term; The point about narcissism is OVERconfidence in your abilities, contempt of others, love of self to an unhealthy degree etc. Narcissists live in a world of fantasy in which they're awesome and everyone other just sucks. On the other side, simple confidence in your abilities and love yourself but also others etc. is called "healthy self-esteem". And these people have exactly the same good traits without the bad traits narcissists have.
    It's funny the abbreviation for narcisstic personality disorder is NPD. You would know which political party that is .

    I agree with what Mephistopheles said, the ability to take charge or better to take on responsibility involves other character traits than a narcisstic person would have.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #62
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    So you are saying that the website which quoted the DSM, quoted it wrong? Or the DSM is wrong/unreliable? Is it because this contradicts the MBTI link with NPD, that NPDs are Judgers, and Judgers aren't borderline???

    If the MBTI would have been so useful in understanding mental issues, don't you think it would be recognized worldwide...as a cool tool for insight?

    The correlations between these things are too complicated to be understood without the MBTI....Comorbidity isn't fully understood...there are theories and theories...

    In order for comorbidity to be fully understood, the relationships between the neurotransmitters and all of the brain's biology must be understood. So yes, at that point , the studies will be entirely reliable.
    calm down with the Ne dude . i just want to look at that study so that i can see p-values of those claims and other reliability stuff etc. or see if its even any real study or just something that some high schooler calculated from some random statistics for his homework
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  3. #63
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Hmmm... They don't directly disambiguate, but it seems that narcissists are more concerned with questions of prestige and adoration that people with APD... Can those coexist in the same person?

    PS: Thanks for the link!

  4. #64
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    A narcissist benefits from their narcissism only to the degree that they can keep people at arm's length. People tend to have an exceptionally positive first impression of narcissists, but intimacy generally brings a very low opinion of narcissists. So it's only their advantage where they can avoid that.

    A narcissist's behavior is no good for anyone else. Narcissists manipulate others for gain at their expense, plain and simple. The narcissist's gain is typically everyone else's loss. And when two narcissists are together, it's like a slugging match. They are completely in conflict with each other, and lack any particular manipulative advantage over each other, so it's just a protracted (can costly) battle of will.
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  5. #65
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    calm down with the Ne dude . i just want to look at that study so that i can see p-values of those claims and other reliability stuff etc. or see if its even any real study or just something that some high schooler calculated from some random statistics for his homework
    http://www.amazon.com/Diagnostic-Sta.../dp/0890420254

    http://www.articlesfactory.com/artic...morbidity.html

    Comorbidity and Differential Diagnoses

    Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is often diagnosed with other mental health disorders ("co-morbidity"), such as mood disorders, eating disorders, and substance-related disorders. Patients with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are frequently abusive and prone to impulsive and reckless behaviours ("dual diagnosis").

    The comorbidity of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) with other personality disorders, such as the Histrionic, Borderline, Paranoid, and Antisocial Personality Disorders, is high.

    http://www1.appstate.edu/~hillrw/Nar...morbidity.html


    It is rare that someone diagnosed with NPD will not also be diagnosed with another Axis II disorder; in fact, Ronningstam points out that, among the Axis II Cluster B (dramatic) disorders, �Narcissistic Personality Disorder has one of the highest rates of diagnostic overlap.�18 It has also been suggested that NPD is over-diagnosed, that the constellation of symptoms clinicians identify as constituting NPD do not conform to the DSM requirements, and that clinicians frequently do not identify NPD in patients whose primary clinical diagnosis is Narcissistic Personality Disorder.19

    http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=20551324

    Prevalence of lifetime NPD was 6.2%, with rates greater for men (7.7%) than for women (4.8%). NPD was significantly more prevalent among black men and women and Hispanic women, younger adults, and separated/divorced/widowed and never married adults. NPD was associated with mental disability among men but not women. High co-occurrence rates of substance use, mood, and anxiety disorders and other personality disorders were observed. With additional comorbidity controlled for, associations with bipolar I disorder, posttraumatic stress disorder, and schizotypal and borderline personality disorders remained significant, but weakened, among men and women.
    The following chart illustrates the co-occurrence of NPD with other Axis II disorders according to the criteria sets in the DSM-III and DSM-III-R.

    Comorbidity of
    Narcissistic Personality Disorder
    With Other Axis II Disorders20


    Axis II
    Disorder

    Percentage
    of Co-Occurrence
    Histrionic Personality Disorder
    53%
    Borderline Personality Disorder
    47%
    Paranoid Personality Disorder
    36%
    Avoidant Personality Disorder
    36%
    Passive-Aggressive Personality
    Disorder
    28%
    Antisocial Personality Disorder
    16%

    The following chart illustrates the comorbidity of NPD with Anxiety and Depressive disorders:


    Comorbidity of
    Narcissistic Personality Disorder
    With Depressive and Anxiety Disorders21


    Comorbid With Comorbidity Rate
    Depressive Disorders
    4%
    Anxiety Disorders
    3%

    The comorbidity of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) with other personality disorders, such as the Histrionic, Borderline, Paranoid, and Antisocial Personality Disorders, is high.


    http://www.articledashboard.com/Arti...orbidity/63876

    The comorbidity of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) with other personality disorders, such as the Histrionic, Borderline, Paranoid, and Antisocial Personality Disorders, is high.



    It's the same thing copied all over the internet.......

  6. #66
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Did you notice that all three of us (you, me, prpl) all scored medium on Vanity and Superiority and low on everything else?

    That's interesting.
    Yes, I also noticed that. Someone would probably have to be in a sever state of self loathing and depression to not answer in a "narcissistic" fashion on some of those questions though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #67
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    I wont comment on that, but here is a test. There once was a thread where members posted their results, if i remember correctly.
    Your score is 27
    Maximum is 40. Average for Americans is 15.
    Your score for Authority is MEDIUM
    Your score for Self-sufficiency is LOW
    Your score for Superiority is HIGH
    Your score for Exhibitionism is HIGH
    Your score for Exploitativeness is LOW
    Your score for Vanity is HIGH
    Your score for Entitlement is HIGH

    Butbutbut.... I'm only a tiny bit of a narcissist. I think I'm awesome but I think everyone else is awesome too.

    Isn't self-absorption with an unsteady sort of confidence and attention-seeking a different thing from true narcissism if you still care about other people and think of them as equals?
    Tune into Ventrilo weeknights between 6pm and 1am PST for continuation of universe dominating shenanigans and occassional type-related propaganda.........

  8. #68
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    7 myths about Narcissism, Lindsay Lyon
    A hallmark of narcissism is overconfidence. But there's one thing that narcissists can legitimately be confident about: Not all that we assume about narcissism is true. Research psychologist Jean Twenge laid out these seven myths about narcissism, which she and her coauthor identify in their new book, The Narcissism Epidemic: Living in the Age of Entitlement. Edited excerpts from her conversation with U.S. News:


    1. Narcissism is really high self-esteem. No, it's not. Someone can have really high self-esteem and not be narcissistic. The key difference is that people high in self-esteem focus on relationships and narcissists are missing that piece about caring about relationships. They want to know what other people can do for them, but in terms of having close emotional relationships, they don't care.

    2. Deep down, narcissists are insecure and have low self-esteem. People assume that narcissists must be concealing some deep insecurity or they actually hate themselves. But the data don't back it up. Even if you measure self-esteem in a subtle, unconscious way, deep down inside, narcissists think they're awesome. It's important to understand that this is a myth because when people act like jerks and they behave narcissistically, often others will say that the solution is that they really need to boost their self-esteem. Well, that's not going to help. That's exactly their problem.

    3. Maybe narcissists have a reason for being narcissistic. This comes up a lot. People think, "Well, maybe narcissists have a reason for being this way." That's not true. When you look at objective measures of intelligence and beauty, narcissists are just like everybody else. They just think they're great. They're legends in their own minds. There are lots of studies on this. My favorite one came out a couple months ago. It was titled "Narcissistic Men and Women Think They Are So Hot, but They Are Not." If you ask narcissists how attractive they think they are or how smart they think they are, they rate themselves high. But when you look at an actual IQ test, or someone else rating their photograph, they're average.

    4. A little narcissism is healthy. You have to ask, "Healthy for whom?" Narcissism is basically never healthy for other people. It tends to work out OK for the narcissist in the short term, but in the long term, they end up messing up their relationships at work and at home, and they end up depressed later in life.

    5. Narcissism is just physical vanity. Physical vanity is a correlate of narcissism, but there are plenty of other [aspects of narcissism], including materialism, entitlement, antisocial behavior, and problems in relationships.

    6. You have to be narcissistic to be successful. Narcissism isn't linked to success. Self-esteem isn't even linked to success. So why do people make this association? It's partly because we think that self-admiration is always good, and it's partly because highly successful narcissists are highly visible, like Donald Trump and Paris Hilton. But there are plenty of people who are successful in those fields who we haven't heard of because they don't have their own TV show with "Money, Money, Money" playing in the theme song. They're just as successful; they're just not on TV.

    7. You have to love yourself to love someone else. The reality is that if you love yourself too much, you won't have any left over for anyone else. Again, keep in mind that if you hate yourself and you're really depressed, you're probably not going to be a great relationship partner either. But people with low self-esteem are perfectly good relationship partners most of the time. They can be insecure, but they do care about their partners, unlike people who are narcissistic.

    Ofcourse this is one person, I'm sure there are lots of people that will argue it. Doing a quick search to see if good evidence suggests low self-esteem is at play, I came up empty handed.
    Yea, I'm just wondering how they studied whether or not low self confidence was at play. If you ask the narcissist a series of questions relating to their self esteem, my guess is that they feel that they have high self esteem and there's nothing wrong, therefore answering those questions falsely.

    (Edit: Sorry, reread and changed my post!)
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  9. #69
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    well i just looked up more of this thing and turns out that they changed some criteria for certain disorders for this new version(your link), because of too high overlapping between some dp diagnosis(due to bad questions in the previous version), including those correlated to npd. the table you showed is from the last version, so if it was on that book, it was only there to criticize the previous version and showing where it went wrong. in short, that correlation in your pic isnt valid. Boo-yah
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  10. #70
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Society is a product of other trait sets, dont blame that crap on us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    However, values and trends in society - especially America - are looking more and more ENTJ. There has been some debate on whether the United States is more ESTJ or ENTJ, I do believe the focus on having the biggest house and nicest car and living beyond one's means and being uber-powerful and focused on being socially dominant and dying with the most toys...is ENTJ rather than ESTJ.

    Then again, you're from Ireland, so why would you care, ha.
    Man. Can't even make a joke on this forum anymore!
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
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