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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    got some studies of that? borderline and antisocial have clear correlation with MBTI NP, while narcissistic pd has correlation with N(not so clear tho). because narcissistic pd has no correlation on MBTI J-P axis, it sound weird that it would have strong correlation with borderline and antisocial since they have clear correlation with P.


    (http://www.millon.net/taxonomy/summary.htm)

    weird that there is no borderline subtype for narcissistic pd if its strongly correlated with it

    or narcissistic subtype for borderline


    sure you arent just saying that they are much alike on surface level?
    Actually I've witnessed a believable theory that indicates narcissism can be easily found in people who are in Fe/Ne or Ne/Fe loops (ESFJs and ENTPs) but I also suspect I've seen it in more than one NTJ.

    At any rate, I don't think there's a specific type correlation, especially not in terms of four dichotomies, that's just silly.

  2. #42
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    I wont comment on that, but here is a test. There once was a thread where members posted their results, if i remember correctly.
    I got 6 Your score for Authority is LOW
    Your score for Self-sufficiency is LOW
    Your score for Superiority is MEDIUM
    Your score for Exhibitionism is LOW
    Your score for Exploitativeness is LOW
    Your score for Vanity is MEDIUM
    Your score for Entitlement is LOW

    thought it was going to be higher.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    According to wiki, yes.
    "Healthy narcissism is a structural truthfulness of the self, achievement of self and object constancy, synchronization between the self and the superego and a balance between libidinal and aggressive drives (the ability to receive gratification from others and the drive for impulse expression). Healthy narcissism forms a constant, realistic self-interest and mature goals and principles and an ability to form deep object relations."

    Freud on Narcissism (the irony)

    "Healthy narcissism might exist in all individuals. Freud says that this is an original state from which the individual develops the love object. He argues that healthy narcissism is an essential part of normal development. According to Freud the love of the parents for their child and their attitude toward their child could be seen as a revival and reproduction of their own narcissism. The child has an omnipotence of thought; the parents stimulate that feeling because in their child they see the things that they have never reached themselves. Compared to neutral observations, the parents tend to overvalue the qualities of their child. When parents act in an extreme opposite style and the child is rejected or inconsistently reinforced depending on the mood of the parent, the self-needs of the child are not met."
    Geeze that's got to be the most inaccurate Wiki I've read since the days of the "socialism wars" on Wiki, that's also a gross misreading to Freud too, its actually more like Melain Klein's version of Freud.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I'm still curious about how they measured whether or not narcissists had self esteem issues?
    7 myths about Narcissism, Lindsay Lyon
    A hallmark of narcissism is overconfidence. But there's one thing that narcissists can legitimately be confident about: Not all that we assume about narcissism is true. Research psychologist Jean Twenge laid out these seven myths about narcissism, which she and her coauthor identify in their new book, The Narcissism Epidemic: Living in the Age of Entitlement. Edited excerpts from her conversation with U.S. News:


    1. Narcissism is really high self-esteem. No, it's not. Someone can have really high self-esteem and not be narcissistic. The key difference is that people high in self-esteem focus on relationships and narcissists are missing that piece about caring about relationships. They want to know what other people can do for them, but in terms of having close emotional relationships, they don't care.

    2. Deep down, narcissists are insecure and have low self-esteem. People assume that narcissists must be concealing some deep insecurity or they actually hate themselves. But the data don't back it up. Even if you measure self-esteem in a subtle, unconscious way, deep down inside, narcissists think they're awesome. It's important to understand that this is a myth because when people act like jerks and they behave narcissistically, often others will say that the solution is that they really need to boost their self-esteem. Well, that's not going to help. That's exactly their problem.

    3. Maybe narcissists have a reason for being narcissistic. This comes up a lot. People think, "Well, maybe narcissists have a reason for being this way." That's not true. When you look at objective measures of intelligence and beauty, narcissists are just like everybody else. They just think they're great. They're legends in their own minds. There are lots of studies on this. My favorite one came out a couple months ago. It was titled "Narcissistic Men and Women Think They Are So Hot, but They Are Not." If you ask narcissists how attractive they think they are or how smart they think they are, they rate themselves high. But when you look at an actual IQ test, or someone else rating their photograph, they're average.

    4. A little narcissism is healthy. You have to ask, "Healthy for whom?" Narcissism is basically never healthy for other people. It tends to work out OK for the narcissist in the short term, but in the long term, they end up messing up their relationships at work and at home, and they end up depressed later in life.

    5. Narcissism is just physical vanity. Physical vanity is a correlate of narcissism, but there are plenty of other [aspects of narcissism], including materialism, entitlement, antisocial behavior, and problems in relationships.

    6. You have to be narcissistic to be successful. Narcissism isn't linked to success. Self-esteem isn't even linked to success. So why do people make this association? It's partly because we think that self-admiration is always good, and it's partly because highly successful narcissists are highly visible, like Donald Trump and Paris Hilton. But there are plenty of people who are successful in those fields who we haven't heard of because they don't have their own TV show with "Money, Money, Money" playing in the theme song. They're just as successful; they're just not on TV.

    7. You have to love yourself to love someone else. The reality is that if you love yourself too much, you won't have any left over for anyone else. Again, keep in mind that if you hate yourself and you're really depressed, you're probably not going to be a great relationship partner either. But people with low self-esteem are perfectly good relationship partners most of the time. They can be insecure, but they do care about their partners, unlike people who are narcissistic.

    Ofcourse this is one person, I'm sure there are lots of people that will argue it. Doing a quick search to see if good evidence suggests low self-esteem is at play, I came up empty handed.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  5. #45
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Why do you associate mental illnesses, personality disorders or whatever they're called with the MBTI ?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Society is a product of other trait sets, dont blame that crap on us.
    However, values and trends in society - especially America - are looking more and more ENTJ. There has been some debate on whether the United States is more ESTJ or ENTJ, I do believe the focus on having the biggest house and nicest car and living beyond one's means and being uber-powerful and focused on being socially dominant and dying with the most toys...is ENTJ rather than ESTJ.

    Then again, you're from Ireland, so why would you care, ha.

  7. #47
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Actually I've witnessed a believable theory that indicates narcissism can be easily found in people who are in Fe/Ne or Ne/Fe loops (ESFJs and ENTPs) but I also suspect I've seen it in more than one NTJ.

    At any rate, I don't think there's a specific type correlation, especially not in terms of four dichotomies, that's just silly.
    http://www.uccs.edu/~faculty/dsegal/...ures-JPT-2.pdf
    i also got this other 53 page study about the subject, but cant find it from google.

    as that study shows, only pd with full type correlation is INTP to schizotypal pd, all of them have correlation to some of the four MBTI dichotomies. narcissistic is the only one with not clear correlation(by clear i mean under 1% chance that study lies and with that not so clear correlation i mean 1-5% chance that study is wrong in that), but still has correlation to N.

    should be mentioned that this is about narcissistic personality disorder and thats not same as when people call each other narcissistic in general language. you seem to be talking about people who love themselves too much, that might happen with any type
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  8. #48
    Senior Member Mephistopheles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    got some studies of that? borderline and antisocial have clear correlation with MBTI NP, while narcissistic pd has correlation with N(not so clear tho). because narcissistic pd has no correlation on MBTI J-P axis, it sound weird that it would have strong correlation with borderline and antisocial since they have clear correlation with P.
    As far as I know, people with bpd can have phases of narcissism as a way of fighting their insecurities. But unlike "real" narcissists, they don't have a high-self-esteem and can feel empathy; They just decided to suppress these feelings. Therefore, I don't think that full-time-narcissism is related to bpd, they can only appear indifferent to other's feelings etc. for some periods of time.
    They say I only think in form of crunching numbers.....
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I got 6 Your score for Authority is LOW
    Your score for Self-sufficiency is LOW
    Your score for Superiority is MEDIUM
    Your score for Exhibitionism is LOW
    Your score for Exploitativeness is LOW
    Your score for Vanity is MEDIUM
    Your score for Entitlement is LOW

    thought it was going to be higher.
    I got 9. I think it's interesting that the average American gets 15. I'm sure this is linked to the fact that our schools fail stacked up against all other developed nations (and I'm not just talking about England, France, and Japan...Russia has a higher literacy rate than we do) but we rank highest on "self-esteem."

    Your score for Authority is LOW
    Your score for Self-sufficiency is LOW
    Your score for Superiority is MEDIUM
    Your score for Exhibitionism is LOW
    Your score for Exploitativeness is LOW
    Your score for Vanity is MEDIUM
    Your score for Entitlement is LOW

  10. #50
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    Why do you associate mental illnesses, personality disorders or whatever they're called with the MBTI ?
    because there is correlation with MBTI and because you didnt give pic like this, i used MBTI to analyze the probability of the correlation. i knew that it might not give true results, thats why i wanted some studies.

    btw
    Quote Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comorbidity#Mental_health
    The Axis II personality disorders are often criticized because their comorbidity rates are excessively high, approaching 60% in some cases, indicating to critics the possibility that these categories of mental illness are too imprecisely distinguished to be usefully valid for diagnostic purposes
    would be nice to see the full study since that picture doesent tell much about reliability of the study
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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