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  1. #131
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post

    lolololol!!!! You are awsome.
    Your context seems cheeky.

    Assert a premise to counter mine, if you've one.

  2. #132
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    I got it! After a rather lengthy discussion with an "S" on the "what don't you get" (ironic) thread... I never would have believed it. Yeh, I truly do get now.
    What was your insight? Do share...

  3. #133
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    It's most confusing to return after a few days absence to find I've created a thread. Kudos to whoever did it though.. nice title..

    Anyhow subject at hand.

    Thinking outside the box.
    Brian "You're all individuals"
    Crowd "We're all individuals"
    Individual "I'm not!"

    Hmm this "thinking outside the box" was a marketing term was it not? Used to represent those who could come up with ideas which were unexpected, unconventional or new. How that applies to how you collect information I cannot figure. You try getting an ESTP to stay in the box when you're doing something restrictive or get them to come outside of their box when you're doing something free-form. It's a question of how things are processed, not results.

    Sure I'd expect some kind of correlation between intuitives but to accept it as a rule would invite error.

    Anyway, shouldn't we try to get away from such fashion statements about people's thinking? It's getting like the teenage obsession with being "different" by wearing the same things and doing the same things as everyone else.

    For those who really want to be individuals, it involves being shunned by most people and having to put up with the stones and arrows from those who feel that your "being different" is a mutation and a threat to their version of reality.

    As for IQ, that's never been a reliable measure of how useful your mind is. Such simple measures are kind of equivalent to processor speeds. It's not just the clock speed of your processor or the amount of memory you've installed which determines your actual speed of operation. There are many variables and IQ falls woefully short of a complete benchmark. It is however the most recognised and perhaps the most complete in current use. However rely on it at your own risk. I've met the so called "clever" people and I wouldn't trust half of them with anything more dangerous than plastic cutlery.

    A good example of how poorly we currently measure peoples actual brain power was a friend I had at school who on paper could not do maths, english, science or any of the usual intellectual subjects, he could however (half way through a conversation) go "aha" and point out exactly what the problem was and how it could be solved. He could do this for even really complex problems and yet in any test situation he would fail miserably.

    Of course this can be reasoned out and there are always exceptions but this just exemplifies the inadequacy of current methods.

    Anyhow, if you are looking at intelligence in a vacuum then perhaps the correlation between intelligence and intuition is true. However, what use is intelligence in a vacuum?

    Again it would seem that intuitives are better in concept but not in practicality.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #134
    Member illume's Avatar
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    It would be unethical. Making a hiring based not on someone's indicated skill but thier supposed (skewed and misinterpreted by many practitioners and companies) skill would be extremely unfair. I'm Glad that if I were to apply for a job as a meteorology professor, nobody would go "Wait a minute. You're an enFp. That main's you're inclined to be a lousy scientist. get lost", which of course is an exxagerated example, but I'm sure this shit happens all the time. Besides the fact, what happens pretty quickly when organizations try to personality-test employees (with any framework) is that everyone has some sense that thier are right answers, so they all try to throw the test (to fool it). The problem is, MBTI isn't supposed to have right answers.

    Any good Recruiter knows that you don't base a hiring decision solely on a test result... It is just part of the picture. However, sometimes monumental mistakes could be avoided if MBTI were used as part of the hiring process. Here is one classic example: Our HR Manager is an ISTP who scored a "zero" on the feeling portion a of the exam. Is it any small wonder that this person has no empathy for the employees and is one of the most hated managers in our corporate office? This information could have been identified ahead of time and another equally qualified candidate with a more balanced set of scores could have been chosen.

  5. #135
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illume View Post
    It would be unethical. Making a hiring based not on someone's indicated skill but thier supposed (skewed and misinterpreted by many practitioners and companies) skill would be extremely unfair. I'm Glad that if I were to apply for a job as a meteorology professor, nobody would go "Wait a minute. You're an enFp. That main's you're inclined to be a lousy scientist. get lost", which of course is an exxagerated example, but I'm sure this shit happens all the time. Besides the fact, what happens pretty quickly when organizations try to personality-test employees (with any framework) is that everyone has some sense that thier are right answers, so they all try to throw the test (to fool it). The problem is, MBTI isn't supposed to have right answers.

    Any good Recruiter knows that you don't base a hiring decision solely on a test result... It is just part of the picture. However, sometimes monumental mistakes could be avoided if MBTI were used as part of the hiring process. Here is one classic example: Our HR Manager is an ISTP who scored a "zero" on the feeling portion a of the exam. Is it any small wonder that this person has no empathy for the employees and is one of the most hated managers in our corporate office? This information could have been identified ahead of time and another equally qualified candidate with a more balanced set of scores could have been chosen.
    ENFP = bad scientist?

    NEVER!!!
    ENFP = MAD scientist

    Oh and you'd be surprised at how often there are poor recruiters. The example of four seconds per application seems to underline that nicely.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #136
    Member illume's Avatar
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    Four seconds per app, eh??

  7. #137
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illume View Post
    Four seconds per app, eh??
    Sorry, assumed knowledge. Apparently your CV/ application has (on average) approx 4 seconds to attract the interest of the reader or it goes straight in the bin.

    Comforting no?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #138
    Member illume's Avatar
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    Didn't follow at all.... We receive about 20,000+ resumes a year here. Very difficult situation indeed with archaic IT systems and basically no staff. Have to be strong intuitive to make do with the chaos of it all and cull strong candidates out. Sensors would croak.

  9. #139
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illume View Post
    Didn't follow at all.... We receive about 20,000+ resumes a year here. Very difficult situation indeed with archaic IT systems and basically no staff. Have to be strong intuitive to make do with the chaos of it all and cull strong candidates out. Sensors would croak.
    EP vs IP.

    Sorry you're saying you spend longer than 4 seconds looking at each app at the primary stage?

    I must admit the figure is about 20 years out of date but I saw no reason to doubt it recently.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #140
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    This is one of the few times that i've really thought that MBTI talk has gone too far
    I am a sensor and have 140+ IQ, according to testing. And I do not consider myself very intelligent or anything, i'm simlply good at people and thinking outside the box. People are often surprised as to how I get things done.

    Let's take a nerdy example. I was playing a Role Playing Game and our game leader presented me and my sword-armed group with a bunch of unfriendly serpents. About 200 of them. Most people would barricade themselves in a doorway and chop anything that comes close. No. I took the group back, went to the nearest town, bought lamp-oil, bottles and linen. Molotov cocktails! Everyone knows snakes hate fire.
    Went back, SNAKE BBQ!

    My role playing group won't play without me, just because I manage to get them out of just about any situation with thinking way ahead, not thinking within the frames of the box. We have a hardass game leader, but luckily I manage to outsmart him somehow most of the time.

    Really. MBTI discussion has gone a little too far if all sensors are branded dumber than people with N dominance. Most of my friends and my entire family are N's and I own their asses

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

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