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  1. #221
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Sounds as if you have a good niche cut out for yourself. I see how my relentless pursuit of laying things out in a clear, linear way really gets to some people, though. I can be accused of being closeminded when, in fact, I am anything but. I just try to concern myself with reaching a conclusion that is valid based on what is germane to the situation. And really, what kind of educated Smiths fan would prefer Strangeways, Here We Come to The Queen Is Dead, anyway?
    I can understand that, being a J myself. However, I've found that people need to be humored by having their ideas discussed. I've also learned that sometimes they surprise me with great ideas I hadn't already thought of, so to me, it's worth investing my time and attention in discussing the ideas, and truthfully, I like it when people humor me, so it's only fair that I do the same. I mean, unless something is on fire or somebody's bleeding, it's not really going to hurt anything.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #222
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Not really... I think due to being an innately adaptable person who by nature always looks at as many options as possible and tries to see all sides of things, to the point of analysis paralysis on occasion, it rarely happens that I can't see where the Sensor is coming from. On this I feel similarly to cafe...

    However, the main issue I have had in the past with sensors, it's SJ's really, which is understandable considering Si is my inferior function... is where I just even now, continually underestimate how important plain and simple 'sameness' is to them. You know, how deep the need for routine and familiarity are, and the pleasure gained from these things for them. I find that I can understand it intellectually, when it's explained to me and I can use my imagination to figure out the implications of it, but I don't think I'll ever really comprehend or be able to imagine how it feels to be a person who needs routine and familiarity... to the extent of feeling afraid or upset or whatever if they're in unfamiliar situations or not able to follow their usual routine.

    Those things they fear and dislike are the very things that for me make life liveable, so it still often fails to register with me that when I say "Let's go here for a change", my ISTJ friend doesn't view that as being a persuasive statement, but a challenging one.
    I am usually down for going to a new restaurant or bar, but I love food. I do usually have only 2 or 3 different dishes that I order from places I frequent, though, to the extent of saying "I could go for some vodka cream penne" not "Let's go out to Serratore's" sometimes.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I am usually down for going to a new restaurant or bar, but I love food. I do usually have only 2 or 3 different dishes that I order from places I frequent, though, to the extent of saying "I could go for some vodka cream penne" not "Let's go out to Serratore's" sometimes.
    Yes, he always orders the same thing wherever we go, if it's available. I don't know why he even bothers looking at the menu... he even recites the same script to the waiter every time: "can I have the number three breakfast please, but without the tomatoes, perhaps you could put on some extra beans instead. And a cup of tea. And a glass of water please - just ordinary tap water, not bottled, just tap water. And do you have any artificial sweetner? [he always calls it that, despite everyone else calling it by the most popular brand name! at this point I usually have to prompt the bemused waiter with a translation] Thanks."

    Same script, word for word, same pauses in the same places every single time. Always wants to sit in the same seat on the same table. If we go there and 'his' seat or table is taken, he is visibly, very obviously, pissed off, and dwells on it for at least the first half of the visit - you can see he's preoccupied with discomfort at having to sit in a different place than usual, and not listening or responding to any of the conversation.

    Yeah, that's something I just find totally incomprehensible and very difficult indeed to sympathize with.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
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    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  4. #224
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Ah, makes sense. I just had a long debate/discussion over AIM with a friend of mine who would be INxx, and he just was flabbergasted at the way I had organized my thoughts out, and he even derided the fact that I did so. "You just like to see your thoughts written out in a logical and orderly manner." I didn't think that that was a bad thing! I tried to explain why I preferred one album to another when he disagreed and considered it "overrated." I tried to run down the songs and make a comparison, but it ended up with "there's no accounting for taste" from his end, which I declared nonsense.
    I'm doing so well at reinforcing my own conclusions today. I just took three takes to read through that. The final one being quite focused.

    On the whole "You just like to see your thoughts written out in a logical and orderly manner", do you know why you like it like that? Apologies for being intrusive but I tend to find it's the reasons which give the most insight.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yes, he always orders the same thing wherever we go, if it's available. I don't know why he even bothers looking at the menu... he even recites the same script to the waiter every time: "can I have the number three breakfast please, but without the tomatoes, perhaps you could put on some extra beans instead. And a cup of tea. And a glass of water please - just ordinary tap water, not bottled, just tap water. And do you have any artificial sweetner? [he always calls it that, despite everyone else calling it by the most popular brand name! at this point I usually have to prompt the bemused waiter with a translation] Thanks."

    Same script, word for word, same pauses in the same places every single time. Always wants to sit in the same seat on the same table. If we go there and 'his' seat or table is taken, he is visibly, very obviously, pissed off, and dwells on it for at least the first half of the visit - you can see he's preoccupied with discomfort at having to sit in a different place than usual, and not listening or responding to any of the conversation.

    Yeah, that's something I just find totally incomprehensible and very difficult indeed to sympathize with.
    I don't get upset about not getting "my table." However, I do get displaced from my cubicle occasionally here at work, and that kinda pisses me off. I usually try to avoid the area entirely on Thursdays, and see if there are any special projects that I can take care of. Plus, I usually get to leave early on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so that is nice. I find routine comforting, but I am also prone to getting into ruts, so I always try to be looking forward to the next thing to do, and making sure I get good, enjoyable "me time" away from work. But for now, doing the same (small amount) of work each day and goofing off on the Internet is fine. Just need a bigger paycheck.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #226
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Oh, yeah, the real time when I found out and had the epiphany of just how important routine and familiarity are to Si dominants was when I went on vacation with the ISTJ and he spent the entire first two days really grouchy, grumpy and just not getting into the spirit of anything and wouldn't do anything, just complaining constantly. When I gently asked him what gives, he said, as if it was the most obvious and understandable thing, "Well, you know, I've never been here before, it's all very new and different."

    I'd have understood if we'd been in like, a Buddhist monastery in Thailand or something, but we were only about 60 miles from where we lived, it wasn't exactly exotic. But it literally took him two days to 'settle in', to establish some precedents for being there and a sort of routine, before he could enjoy the vacation at all.

    I still find myself stunned and amazed whenever I think on that.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I'm doing so well at reinforcing my own conclusions today. I just took three takes to read through that. The final one being quite focused.

    On the whole "You just like to see your thoughts written out in a logical and orderly manner", do you know why you like it like that? Apologies for being intrusive but I tend to find it's the reasons which give the most insight.
    I think I like to see/hear my thoughts laid out like that because it makes me think about why I would hold an opinion that I do. I have to access the information about the topic at hand, and it gets my mental juices flowing, so to speak. I tend to delve deeply into things I enjoy, and I try to be as familiar as possible about them (music, film, geography/travel, politics, food). That way, if I express a definitive opinion, I have some credence, and am not just talking out my ass (pardon the crudeness, but that is how I feel when people pontificate when they don't know what they are talking about). It helps to debate someone else who also has a fiercely held opinion but can communicate it coherently. It sharpens my own thought processes, and it can lead to new insights, for myself or for the other party. I also appreciate someone who can use their expert knowledge in a charsimatic, convincing way. Does this make sense? I'm trying my best to explain something that even I can't make totally plain.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #228
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Okay either I'm fortunate enough to be surrounded by the cream of the crop or you guys know some really poorly developed people!

    JEEZ!
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #229
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I think I like to see/hear my thoughts laid out like that because it makes me think about why I would hold an opinion that I do. I have to access the information about the topic at hand, and it gets my mental juices flowing, so to speak. I tend to delve deeply into things I enjoy, and I try to be as familiar as possible about them (music, film, geography/travel, politics, food). That way, if I express a definitive opinion, I have some credence, and am not just talking out my ass (pardon the crudeness, but that is how I feel when people pontificate when they don't know what they are talking about). It helps to debate someone else who also has a fiercely held opinion but can communicate it coherently. It sharpens my own thought processes, and it can lead to new insights, for myself or for the other party. I also appreciate someone who can use their expert knowledge in a charsimatic, convincing way. Does this make sense? I'm trying my best to explain something that even I can't make totally plain.
    Oh shadow, how prettily you sit

    I understand that totally. I also see I really should mind my reasoning around you, though that's not meant in a competitive shoulder barging sense but more in terms of consideration.

    Oddly enough your motivations for clear layout are the same as my own but with totally different background to them.

    Hmm this is interesting. I've been waiting for an ESFJ for ages (that sounds bad but meh, it's honest )
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Oh shadow, how prettily you sit

    I understand that totally. I also see I really should mind my reasoning around you, though that's not meant in a competitive shoulder barging sense but more in terms of consideration.

    Oddly enough your motivations for clear layout are the same as my own but with totally different background to them.

    Hmm this is interesting. I've been waiting for an ESFJ for ages (that sounds bad but meh, it's honest )
    Well, according to some people here, I am an ESFJ, ENFJ, ESFP, and ENFP. So I may not be the perfect test case. The Extroversion is the only super-expressed trait I have, though. I see both intuitive and sensing qualities within myself. Again, I am new to the whole typing thing, so I try not to get in over my head with judgments. Typing my friend with whom I had the discussion/debate was a rare exception, but he is very clearly introverted (way more talkative and animated via AIM, often has headphones on normally), and intuitive as far as I can tell.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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