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  1. #211
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    It would be true to say (I think) that, due to the makeup of society in general, an intuitive person learns to adapt earlier than a sensor does and include more fixed points in their thinking but that's more a result of other's than a result of self isn't it?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #212
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I think it's really no surprise that many intuitives, once they're 'diagnosed', adopt a defensive or even hostile attitude towards sensors.

    If you think about it, we're in the minority, and especially those of us with Ne or Ni as our dominant function, most of us would've spent our whole lives being told that everything we think matters, doesn't matter, and that everything we perceive or whatever is 'just our imagination', and therefore not valid.

    I'm not saying all sensors behave that way towards intuitives, but an awful lot of them do. I even see it here, too, sometimes, a sensor smacking down an intuitive's argument by saying it's based on 'nothing', simply because it was based on abstractions that the sensor found difficult to grapple with or just plain unimportant.

    In a way it reminds me of some black people I've known, who've been extremely racist against white people as a whole, because of the prejudice or bad treatment they've had from some white people - enough of it to put them on the defensive.

    I'm not saying this makes bias against sensors right, but it does make it somewhat understandable... I think for me personally, if the ISTJ I deal closely with would show a bit more respect and open-mindedness for the intuitive deductions or observations I make, rather than habitually dismissing everything I say out of hand as "fantasy" and nonsense, then it'd make it much easier for me to resist the urge to think of him as stupid and rigid.

    Huh? I always assume that most Sensors are so clueless (minus Ivy) that they aren't even aware some of us are indeed Intuitive. The Sensors I know would think I was completely out of my mind if I read tried to discuss MBTI related topics with them.

    Am I biased? Yes I am. I have spent my entire life thus far batting my mother off with her close minded view on things. Yes I know not all Sensors are this way, but the most of the ones I've come into contact with are exactly the same. Why just the other day I was having a discussion with a sensor neighbor of mine concerning our children not getting along while they're outside. After frustrating myself by trying to get this incredibly clueless person to understand what I was trying to say I came back inside the house only to have my NT husband explain why it's not ever a good idea to "argue" with an idiot in public. Apparently I've never heard that saying.

    PS I am not calling all sensors idiots, just my neighbor. I do realize there are varying percentages that make up your type and that MBTI is an indicator.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  3. #213
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    Huh? I always assume that most Sensors are so clueless (minus Ivy) that they aren't even aware some of us are indeed Intuitive. The Sensors I know would think I was completely out of my mind if I read tried to discuss MBTI related topics with them.

    Am I biased? Yes I am. I have spent my entire life thus far batting my mother off with her close minded view on things. Yes I know not all Sensors are this way, but the most of the ones I've come into contact with are exactly the same. Why just the other day I was having a discussion with a sensor neighbor of mine concerning our children not getting along while they're outside. After frustrating myself by trying to get this incredibly clueless person to understand what I was trying to say I came back inside the house only to have my NT husband explain why it's not ever a good idea to "argue" with an idiot in public. Apparently I've never heard that saying.
    I think that interest in the MBTI stems from noticing patterns in both individuals behaviour and people in general. I know of few sensors interested in such things, certainly none to the extent shown on this board.

    I do know one borderline ESFP/ENFP who is very interested in it, shame she doesn't post more (that's a hint if you're reading this girl), but she is quite on the ball when it comes down to it and will discuss pretty much any psychology related topic.

    The ISTJ I know has had brief contact with MBTI conversations. Let me just say that his reactions do no credit to others of his type. I think it concerned him that the straight forward method was only one of many approaches possible. I think he ran away screaming soon after
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #214
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    IMO, lousy people are lousy because they're lousy, not because they're MBTI sensors. There are lousy untuitives, too. (I typoed that but I refuse to change it 'cause it's funny!)

    Edited to add: I think we need to be very careful not to backwards engineer and reason that "X doesn't understand me and X is an asshole so X must be a sensor." Likewise the opposite with intuitives. It's a self-affirming loop since after you make that determination you only see what backs it up.
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  5. #215
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    For the intuitives out there, do you ever find yourselves not understanding a sensor? It seems a leitmotif here that sensors do not understand you and your way of thinking, but does it happen vice versa? It has to happen with regularity.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #216
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    For the intuitives out there, do you ever find yourselves not understanding a sensor? It seems a leitmotif here that sensors do not understand you and your way of thinking, but does it happen vice versa? It has to happen with regularity.


    Most definitely. Having tried to argue repeatedly with my ESTP missus I can verify that both sides have both communication issues (transmission and reception).

    I think the problem I have with sensors, sometimes, is that they can be entirely irreverent to those things which I operate on, like pattern. Hence I figure it's probably similar from the sensors point of view with me operating without due care and attention to those things which they value most.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #217
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post


    Most definitely. Having tried to argue repeatedly with my ESTP missus I can verify that both sides have both communication issues (transmission and reception).

    I think the problem I have with sensors, sometimes, is that they can be entirely irreverent to those things which I operate on, like pattern. Hence I figure it's probably similar from the sensors point of view with me operating without due care and attention to those things which they value most.
    Ah, makes sense. I just had a long debate/discussion over AIM with a friend of mine who would be INxx, and he just was flabbergasted at the way I had organized my thoughts out, and he even derided the fact that I did so. "You just like to see your thoughts written out in a logical and orderly manner." I didn't think that that was a bad thing! I tried to explain why I preferred one album to another when he disagreed and considered it "overrated." I tried to run down the songs and make a comparison, but it ended up with "there's no accounting for taste" from his end, which I declared nonsense.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #218
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    For the intuitives out there, do you ever find yourselves not understanding a sensor? It seems a leitmotif here that sensors do not understand you and your way of thinking, but does it happen vice versa? It has to happen with regularity.
    No, it doesn't really. If someone (and I won't even distinguish between Sensors and Intiutives on this because who knows? I'm no expert on typing people.) tells me what they are thinking and why, I almost always understand and I can usually understand why they think that. It's not hard for me to do a perspective switch, so it's not so much that I do not understand, but that I don't agree or I think there are other options that ought to be considered.

    I do find that Sensors that I am close to see things from a very different perspective than I do a lot of times. It is why I seek out their perspective and advice if something isn't making sense to me or I can't get something to work. I have massive blind spots in some areas because of the way I naturally look at things. Blind spots that are plain as day to many Sensors. I have also had the honor of providing insight that, to me, is obvious, but to my Sensor friend is just profound.

    Honestly, without the Sensors, Thinkers, and Extroverts I have in my life who, in part, operate in and advisory capacity for me, I would be so screwed.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  9. #219
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    No, it doesn't really. If someone (and I won't even distinguish between Sensors and Intiutives on this because who knows? I'm no expert on typing people.) tells me what they are thinking and why, I almost always understand and I can usually understand why they think that. It's not hard for me to do a perspective switch, so it's not so much that I do not understand, but that I don't agree or I think there are other options that ought to be considered.

    I do find that Sensors that I am close to see things from a very different perspective than I do a lot of times. It is why I seek out their perspective and advice if something isn't making sense to me or I can't get something to work. I have massive blind spots in some areas because of the way I naturally look at things. Blind spots that are plain as day to many Sensors. I have also had the honor of providing insight that, to me, is obvious, but to my Sensor friend is just profound.

    Honestly, without the Sensors, Thinkers, and Extroverts I have in my life who, in part, operate in and advisory capacity for me, I would be so screwed.
    Sounds as if you have a good niche cut out for yourself. I see how my relentless pursuit of laying things out in a clear, linear way really gets to some people, though. I can be accused of being closeminded when, in fact, I am anything but. I just try to concern myself with reaching a conclusion that is valid based on what is germane to the situation. And really, what kind of educated Smiths fan would prefer Strangeways, Here We Come to The Queen Is Dead, anyway?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #220
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    For the intuitives out there, do you ever find yourselves not understanding a sensor? It seems a leitmotif here that sensors do not understand you and your way of thinking, but does it happen vice versa? It has to happen with regularity.
    Not really... I think due to being an innately adaptable person who by nature always looks at as many options as possible and tries to see all sides of things, to the point of analysis paralysis on occasion, it rarely happens that I can't see where the Sensor is coming from. On this I feel similarly to cafe...

    However, the main issue I have had in the past with sensors, it's SJ's really, which is understandable considering Si is my inferior function... is where I just even now, continually underestimate how important plain and simple 'sameness' is to them. You know, how deep the need for routine and familiarity are, and the pleasure gained from these things for them. I find that I can understand it intellectually, when it's explained to me and I can use my imagination to figure out the implications of it, but I don't think I'll ever really comprehend or be able to imagine how it feels to be a person who needs routine and familiarity... to the extent of feeling afraid or upset or whatever if they're in unfamiliar situations or not able to follow their usual routine.

    edit - just like i guess my ISTJ friend says he finds my confidence and relaxedness in those very situations incomprehensible; he assumes it's due to some sort of prior knowledge I had, that I know something that's enabling me to deal with them that he doesn't know, but no, the situation's every bit as new and unfamiliar to me as it is to him, yet I'm loving every minute of it, striding in confidently with a sorta 'bring it!' attitude, while he's sorta trailing around 'holding my hand' so to speak.

    Those things they fear and dislike are the very things that for me make life liveable, so it still often fails to register with me that when I say "Let's go here for a change", my ISTJ friend doesn't view that as being a persuasive statement, but a challenging one.
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