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View Poll Results: Do you use doublethink?

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  • Yes.

    22 53.66%
  • No.

    14 34.15%
  • I don't know.

    5 12.20%
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  1. #61
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    I don't know how helpful it is aside from the realization that multiple viable perspectives exist and there is no clear right or wrong for many things.
    This.
    For many things, there are more than one answer.
    For many things, there are only one answer.
    For many things, there are no answer.

  2. #62
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeru View Post
    This.
    For many things, there are more than one answer.
    For many things, there are only one answer.
    For many things, there are no answer.
    You guys do realize that this is not doublethink?

    Simply believing that some questions can yield multiple answers, or that some questions cannot be answered given the state of our knowledge, or even that some questions can never be answered is not the same as tricking your mind into believing simultaneously in A and not A.

    If, for instance, I can see that there are valid arguments on both sides of the debate over legalizing marijuana, it doesn't mean that I simultaneously believe both that it should be legalized and that it shouldn't be legalized. It just means either that I haven't made up my mind as to which side I think is more right, or that I don't believe either side is ever going to be right. In either case, it's not that you believe in contradictory things at the same time, it's that you have effectively given up on the enterprise of choosing your belief.
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  3. #63
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    If I believed I didn't use doublethink... would I be using doublethink?

  4. #64
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Doublethink -- The power to hold two completely contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accept both of them.

    It was a concept introduced by Orwell's 1984.

    I find it a very interesting concept, because I find myself using a similar process in many aspects of my life and reasoning. In many cases, I feel that it yields something closer to the truth than simply believing that things are or are not one way.

    It seems very philosophically profound, realizing that all things are embedded within their opposite, and indeed cannot exist in the absence of their opposite. Things which seem to be contradictory, are not truly contradictory.

    I used to experience cognitive dissonance a lot, but eventually I stumbled upon this idea... and I never experienced it again. It was gone from my mind.

    So, my question is... do you use doublethink? Do you find that it helps you deal better with some aspects of your life to do so?
    Athenian is a thoughtful individual.

    A doublethinker is the heart of any party.
    She is gregarious and kind.
    A wolf in a lamb's clothing.

  5. #65
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    In order to be religiously moderate, there has to be some degree of doublethink.

  6. #66
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    I'd say that if you can't recognize any form of "holding conflicting beliefs" in yourself that you are either:

    a) an exceptionally clear (and organized) thinker, or
    more likely:
    b) you aren't trying very hard to find them.

    That said, this thread is not just about holding conflicting beliefs - it's about willfully accepting both of them.


    In some situations, I do think there is an objective truth and that you can uncover it and support it with evidence. In these cases, there is no reason to have two beliefs. That would be "willful ignorance."

    In other situations, I think that Truth may or may not exist, and if it did exist, would I be able (with my human limitations) to understand it? Probably not. In these situations, I accept that there is a wide range of possibilities. I suppose I could say they are all "true", but really, they are all just (as far as I can tell) equally likely. So I just keep them in mind as such. (I'm sure there is a name for this in philosophy, anyone?)
    Well, it seems to be that the assumption that there is one "truth," would be rooted in certain assumptions about the nature of reality, wouldn't it? And most of these assumptions would come from trusting the information provided by the senses... which is something I'm not inclined to do to any greater degree than I must.

    Oh, and Orangey, do you have to keep trying to scare people with the worst quotes from the book, as if they were directly applicable?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    You guys do realize that this is not doublethink?

    Simply believing that some questions can yield multiple answers, or that some questions cannot be answered given the state of our knowledge, or even that some questions can never be answered is not the same as tricking your mind into believing simultaneously in A and not A.

    If, for instance, I can see that there are valid arguments on both sides of the debate over legalizing marijuana, it doesn't mean that I simultaneously believe both that it should be legalized and that it shouldn't be legalized. It just means either that I haven't made up my mind as to which side I think is more right, or that I don't believe either side is ever going to be right. In either case, it's not that you believe in contradictory things at the same time, it's that you have effectively given up on the enterprise of choosing your belief.
    Yeah, I don't think everyone quite grasps the concept.

  8. #68
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    You guys do realize that this is not doublethink?

    Simply believing that some questions can yield multiple answers, or that some questions cannot be answered given the state of our knowledge, or even that some questions can never be answered is not the same as tricking your mind into believing simultaneously in A and not A.

    If, for instance, I can see that there are valid arguments on both sides of the debate over legalizing marijuana, it doesn't mean that I simultaneously believe both that it should be legalized and that it shouldn't be legalized. It just means either that I haven't made up my mind as to which side I think is more right, or that I don't believe either side is ever going to be right. In either case, it's not that you believe in contradictory things at the same time, it's that you have effectively given up on the enterprise of choosing your belief.
    Right, this is something I think I can relate more to. There are certainly many - most? - subjects/areas in life that are rather gray and which I can see a variety of perspectives on, and am therefore unable to pinpoint one as absolutely Right. There are simply different ways of looking at things, which results in different answers. I think this is where many who are more prone to looking at things from various angles then don't end up 'committing' to any particular one, because they end up not being able to do so as a result of the very fact that they are holding onto these various perspectives.

    Anyway, yeah, for me at least I don't view this as believing in both, or multiple, at the same time - it simply means what you've outlined above - that I am effectively letting go of committing/alligning myself with one and only one. (And perhaps the reason this subject is being brought up is because the nature of the examples that tend to fall under it (religion, abortion, death penalty, anything sociological/philosophical) are SO insanely subjective and often values-based that one can reasonably argue one position or the other)

    Generally speaking, I also have always tended to believe there are ultimate Truths/Realities to how the universe operates and 'how things really happen', and I naturally, just like everyone else, have my subjective/personal lens and opinions about 'how things really are'/reality, which may be right or wrong. And, I might often pull things from various perspectives to try to hone in on this 'reality'. But philosophically I don't really believe two contradictions can be objectively true - there is only one true reality. Our subjectivity and the fact that many subjects ARE subjective is why we fall into the belief that we can hold two opposing view simultaneously - that, and us not wanting to commit to what in essence may be un-committable.

    :confused: I could have done a better job of trying to articulate that, but... meh.
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  9. #69
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    You guys do realize that this is not doublethink?

    Simply believing that some questions can yield multiple answers, or that some questions cannot be answered given the state of our knowledge, or even that some questions can never be answered is not the same as tricking your mind into believing simultaneously in A and not A.

    If, for instance, I can see that there are valid arguments on both sides of the debate over legalizing marijuana, it doesn't mean that I simultaneously believe both that it should be legalized and that it shouldn't be legalized. It just means either that I haven't made up my mind as to which side I think is more right, or that I don't believe either side is ever going to be right. In either case, it's not that you believe in contradictory things at the same time, it's that you have effectively given up on the enterprise of choosing your belief.
    Ex-act-ly...

    I can't tell if the OP is talking about this or about "real" doublethink, it seems to go back and forth....
    -end of thread-

  10. #70
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    You guys do realize that this is not doublethink?

    Simply believing that some questions can yield multiple answers, or that some questions cannot be answered given the state of our knowledge, or even that some questions can never be answered is not the same as tricking your mind into believing simultaneously in A and not A.

    If, for instance, I can see that there are valid arguments on both sides of the debate over legalizing marijuana, it doesn't mean that I simultaneously believe both that it should be legalized and that it shouldn't be legalized. It just means either that I haven't made up my mind as to which side I think is more right, or that I don't believe either side is ever going to be right. In either case, it's not that you believe in contradictory things at the same time, it's that you have effectively given up on the enterprise of choosing your belief.
    Well, that isn't what I do. You're arguing semantics and making assumptions about what "belief" is that really aren't important. You see it as being, by definition, something that is not malleable.

    In my case, I actually DO change my belief and arguments at various times. I've become very good at doing this. I think that it's an important ability to have.

    The mind is reality. There is no external reality worth mentioning, unless you simply decide to fully trust in the evidence of your senses and memory for more than a few purposes...

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