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View Poll Results: Do you use doublethink?

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  • Yes.

    22 53.66%
  • No.

    14 34.15%
  • I don't know.

    5 12.20%
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  1. #11
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    I think I know what your talking about. I don't have that much incongruence.. but some. The things I am incongruent on are extremely unsetteling, and I am forever researching, observing, learning more and more to decide which one holds greater weight, or truth in my mind. I think that eventually one will have to win out the other. Could you give an example of "double think?"

    For instance..
    Ted Bundy.
    1) deserved the death penalty? Yes, he was a monster guised as a human.. he deserved to die.
    2) The death penatly is wrong.. no one has the right to kill another, no matter how attrocious that person is
    3) Society has the right to say "you don't fit with us and you are a danger to us so we are putting you in a cell forever"
    4) Tax payers shouldn't have to pay years and years of Ted BUndy and his appeals
    5) Holding someone in jail forever could be considered worse than death
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  2. #12
    ThatGirl
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    I can entertain an idea without conforming to it. Accepting one truth, but acting upon another. Seeing both sides, and choosing one, even if they both have a truth to them. I don't see why that is so difficult.

  3. #13
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I think I know what your talking about. I don't have that much incongruence.. but some. The things I am incongruent on are extremely unsetteling, and I am forever researching, observing, learning more and more to decide which one holds greater weight, or truth in my mind. I think that eventually one will have to win out the other. Could you give an example of "double think?"

    For instance..
    Ted Bundy.
    1) deserved the death penalty? Yes, he was a monster guised as a human.. he deserved to die.
    2) The death penatly is wrong.. no one has the right to kill another, no matter how attrocious that person is
    3) Society has the right to say "you don't fit with us and you are a danger to us so we are putting you in a cell forever"
    4) Tax payers shouldn't have to pay years and years of Ted BUndy and his appeals
    5) Holding someone in jail forever could be considered worse than death
    You see, I would consider all of those things true. Which one I express, depends very much on the social context in which I find myself.

    I don't consider myself a liar or a hypocrite for expressing or acting on one view at one time, and another at a different time, because I genuinely do consider all of the them true, but some more applicable to certain circumstances or social contexts than others.

  4. #14
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    You see, I would consider all of those things true. Which one I express, depends very much on the social context in which I find myself.
    So if you were with a group of liberals, you'd be talking about how the death penalty should be abolished, and with conservatives you'd be talking about how we're not killing enough people yet, dammit?

    I understand keeping quiet about opinions if you don't want to bother debating it (I do that a lot actually), but actually claiming to hold different opinions based on what you think other people want you to think?! As distinct from (verbally) acknowledging the validity of different views?

    I must be misinterpreting you, because that sounds bizarre.
    -end of thread-

  5. #15
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    So if you were with a group of liberals, you'd be talking about how the death penalty should be abolished, and with conservatives you'd be talking about how we're not killing enough people yet, dammit?

    I understand keeping quiet about opinions if you don't want to bother debating it (I do that a lot actually), but actually claiming to hold different opinions based on what you think other people want you to think?! As distinct from (verbally) acknowledging the validity of different views?

    I must be misinterpreting you, because that sounds bizarre.
    Well, I really only do that if I'm dealing with a group of people who don't acknowledge the validity of different views. The thing is, some times this is necessary in order to get along in society without being insincere, or at in least some parts of it.

    If I'm with a group of people who DO, I may actually express a view different from the prevailing view, just in order to make sure different arguments than the common ones are heard, and not because I believe in the point of view I'm expressing more than the one they believe in.

    Confusing, isn't it?

  6. #16
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    The longer I know you, the less I understand you.
    -end of thread-

  7. #17
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    You see, I would consider all of those things true. Which one I express, depends very much on the social context in which I find myself.

    I don't consider myself a liar or a hypocrite for expressing or acting on one view at one time, and another at a different time, because I genuinely do consider all of the them true, but some more applicable to certain circumstances or social contexts than others.
    Then you are a sophist. I can see how this is possible if you truly do not believe in a "capital-T Truth" (i.e., you think truth is socially and contextually determined); but if you don't subscribe to a relativist epistemology, and you persist in this "doublethink," then you're either being willfully ignorant (as MacGuffin mentioned) or deceptive (which Plato thought the sophists were being anyway.)
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #18
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Doublethink -- The power to hold two completely contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accept both of them.

    It was a concept introduced by Orwell's 1984.

    I find it a very interesting concept, because I find myself using a similar process in many aspects of my life and reasoning. In many cases, I feel that it yields something closer to the truth than simply believing that things are or are not one way.

    It seems very philosophically profound, realizing that all things are embedded within their opposite, and indeed cannot exist in the absence of their opposite. Things which seem to be contradictory, are not truly contradictory.

    I used to experience cognitive dissonance a lot, but eventually I stumbled upon this idea... and I never experienced it again. It was gone from my mind.

    So, my question is... do you use doublethink? Do you find that it helps you deal better with some aspects of your life to do so?
    This is very Taoist of you.

    The only complication I've had contemplating Taoist philosophy is that once you understand a dichotomy as a complete whole, it's tempting to unpack an antithesis to that whole, thereby creating another whole, and so on and so forth. It spirals out indefinitely.


  9. #19
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Then you are a sophist. I can see how this is possible if you truly do not believe in a "capital-T Truth" (i.e., you think truth is socially and contextually determined); but if you don't subscribe to a relativist epistemology, and you persist in this "doublethink," then you're either being willfully ignorant (as MacGuffin mentioned) or deceptive (which Plato thought the sophists were being anyway.)
    I am a relativist most of the time. Sometimes I choose to see an absolute truth for certain purposes, but then I return to a relativist mindset.

  10. #20
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, I really only do that if I'm dealing with a group of people who don't acknowledge the validity of different views. The thing is, some times this is necessary in order to get along in society without being insincere, or at in least some parts of it.
    Barring exceptional circumstances (i.e. your entire life is a lie and it's vital that your cover not be blown), no, it's absolutely not necessary to express the prevailing opinions to "get along in society". Some people won't look kindly on you expressing contrary opinions, but nobody will ever have a problem with you not saying anything, or if directly asked saying "I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to have a valid opinion on that", if you really really need to wuss out of expressing your real opinion.

    And it's the very definition of being insincere, so I don't know what your "logic" is for it preventing insincerity. Expressing one perspective out of many as if that one perspective were your opinion is not saying what you truly believe, i.e. insincere.
    -end of thread-

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