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View Poll Results: Do you use doublethink?

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  • Yes.

    22 53.66%
  • No.

    14 34.15%
  • I don't know.

    5 12.20%
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  1. #121
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Fitting facts to one's own perception or beliefs is not doublethink anyway. I won't argue with whatever type of naive real world skepticism is going on here (because that's a tiresome and futile endeavor anyway), but we must remember that doublethink is assenting simultaneously to the truth of two logically contradictory things. While that may involve the convenient bending or disregard of pertinent facts, that kind of activity is not a sufficient condition of doublethink.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #122

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    I've always thought that Orwell meant doublethink to be a byword or synonymn for hypocrisy or ideologically motivated lying?

  3. #123
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Fact 1: "We've always been at war with Eurasia and allied with Eastasia"
    Fact 2: "We've always been at war with Eastasia and allied with Eurasia"

    If I accept the first fact while never really disproving or rejecting the second one, I use doublethink. I can temporarily forget one of the truths, and then, "when it becomes necessary again", I "draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed".
    This is possible if there is no objective truth, and since there is none, it is not dishonest.

  4. #124
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    (you do realize that I'm playing devil's advocate, right? very few sane people have learned to implement this in everyday life, but that doesn't tell anything about the theory)

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Fact 1: "We've always been at war with Eurasia and allied with Eastasia"
    Fact 2: "We've always been at war with Eastasia and allied with Eurasia"

    If I accept the first fact while never really disproving or rejecting the second one, I use doublethink. I can temporarily forget one of the truths, and then, "when it becomes necessary again", I "draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed".
    This is possible if there is no objective truth, and since there is none, it is not dishonest.
    No, I dont think that's what Orwell was suggesting, having read a lot of his other writing its apparent to me that the most important thing about his writing is that he is to be taken at face value and he tries to communicate truisms and to do so simply too.

    So when he demonstrates that two contradictory ideas are held and doublethink is the means it is supposed to simply mean that there is political lying and intellectual concepts are invented to get people to believe those lies.

    Although in a sense those statements were and are true because Winston grasped the fact that not only was the regime allied at one time with one foreign power and at another with another but that essentially the regime was at war with all powers foreign and domestic as it suited itself to be.

  6. #126
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    I realize Orwell's intentions in creating a dystopian nightmare, but I wasn't talking about 1984.
    These examples seem to be the most obvious ones for demonstrating the rules of doublethink, that's the only reason for using them.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    I realize Orwell's intentions in creating a dystopian nightmare, but I wasn't talking about 1984.
    These examples seem to be the most obvious ones for demonstrating the rules of doublethink, that's the only reason for using them.
    Oh alright, you're theorising beyond the original intent of the author, it all just sounds to me like a pretty intellectual take on rationalisation in dealing with cognitive dissonance but its grand, carry on.

  8. #128
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    I force myself to disregard or alter "facts" to shape my reality. It's hard for me to imagine a successful yet honest life without implementing doublethink.
    Is that because you are not successful or honest, so you use doublethink to say that you are?

    why be the devil's advocate when you can be the devil himself? ...playing along
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  9. #129
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    ^Amazing question.
    My answer: Does it matter?

  10. #130
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Does it matter?:

    If other people rely on you, then when you delude yourself into thinking that you are something that you are not, you make it difficult for everyone around you. Therefore it matters if you are holding yourself accountable to standards that other people can recognize.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

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