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View Poll Results: Do you use doublethink?

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  • Yes.

    22 53.66%
  • No.

    14 34.15%
  • I don't know.

    5 12.20%
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  1. #91
    Senior Member Thisica's Avatar
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    The concept of doublethink does assume that truth is binary in nature.

    In real life, it ain't so simple. We have, as Asmiov wrote, "degrees of wrong". However, as he pointed out later, whilst chatting to John: "...when people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."

    This is the essence of science, I think. We get approximations to how the world works, but we always know that our knowledge base is incomplete.

    In short:
    I'm using doublethink, if the truth of a particular subject matter is binary;
    I'm not using doublethink, if the truth of a particular subject matter isn't binary.
    “To explain all nature is too difficult a task for any one man or even for any one age. 'Tis much better to do a little with certainty, & leave the rest for others that come after you, than to explain all things by conjecture without making sure of any thing.”—Statement from unpublished notes for the Preface to the Opticks (1704) by Newton.

    What do you think about me? And for the darker side, here.

  2. #92
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    Correct me if I'm wrong.
    This isn't doublethink.

    1) For many things, there are more than one answer.
    2) For many things, there are only one answer.
    3) For many things, there are no answer.

    This is..
    1) For all things, there is more than one answer.
    2) For all things, there is only one answer.
    3) For all things, there is no answer.

    1) For many things, there is more than one answer.
    2) For many things, there is only one answer.
    3) For many things, there is no answer.

    1) For nothing, there is more than one answer.
    2) For nothing, there is only one answer.
    3) For nothing, there is no answer.

    Double think is holding all those 9 statements as true..realizing that it's a massive ball of contradictions..and hoping that within that ball of contradictions lies the truth/reality because you honestly can't perceive the world any differently (not that you stop trying to..but this is just consistent with your understanding of how the world works). Trying to perceive less is just living a lie but you constantly try to perceive more...

  3. #93
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mkenya View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong.
    This isn't doublethink.

    1) For many things, there are more than one answer.
    2) For many things, there are only one answer.
    3) For many things, there are no answer.

    This is..
    1) For all things, there is more than one answer.
    2) For all things, there is only one answer.
    3) For all things, there is no answer.

    1) For many things, there is more than one answer.
    2) For many things, there is only one answer.
    3) For many things, there is no answer.

    1) For nothing, there is more than one answer.
    2) For nothing, there is only one answer.
    3) For nothing, there is no answer.

    Double think is holding all those 9 statements as true..realizing that it's a massive ball of contradictions..and hoping that within that ball of contradictions lies the truth/reality because you honestly can't perceive the world any differently (not that you stop trying to..but this is just consistent with your understanding of how the world works). Trying to perceive less is just living a lie but you constantly try to perceive more...
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #94
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    For example if the only thing that exists is x.

    X.

    You can't even prove not X from X. Not without giving X certain characteristics first. Of course we assume that x has certain characteristics just by it's very existence..but we fail to see that we have assumed stuff already. We fail to see that we assume that it exists without any evidence to back it up. Those characteristics are given to it by us...we can never see x without the existence we choose to give it (knowingly or unknowingly)..and if we choose to rid X of the burden of existing just because we choose it to exist..then is X even there to begin with? If we choose to not purposefully give X an existence (because its an assumption..and reality/truth is independent of assumptions) then we are left with a more fundamental question...does X exist in the first place? Well if you choose X to continue to exist you can continue perceiving X. If you choose to not let it exist then you stop perceiving X. But it either exists or it doesn't and it's up to you to let it exist for you or not. (If there is another way oh please please please tell me...) You can choose to do either..but "double think" just realizes that your choice is still a fundamentally flawed choice...and the other is just as viable.

    So..in a world where no one/thing gives anyone any characteristics..what can you do with the existence of X? In my experience (so far) not much really..you can't extrapolate other "truths" from X.
    So if X,
    then X.

    x=x
    or if you want
    ( )<-Literally nothing. Not X. Not anything..

    any tinkering with that truth equates to you making assumptions. (Not that you can't tinker with it..but it's very important to realize that you are making assumptions.)

    I swear this makes perfect sense in my head..it's just way too hard to put it down in writing..

  5. #95
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Bullshit is incorrect perspective. It's morel logical to assume nothing than everything.

    Ergo, Doublethink is useless.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    It's morel logical to assume nothing than everything.
    You made a positive claim without proving it.
    Why is it more logical to assume nothing?

  7. #97
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    "Those who deny [Aristotle's] first principle should be flogged or burned until they admit that it is not the same thing to be burned and not burned, or whipped and not whipped." - Ibn Sina (Avicenna)
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #98
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    Lol..so a guy (an influential guy, yes) said something and that makes it true..

    How about forming a position based on how YOU perceive the world..and stop clinging to how some guy who you've never met perceives the world. Since when was Aristotle god? Aristotle was human..just like the rest of us. And I've never even heard of Ibn Sina..does that make it more or less likely that he was right (or is my and/or his rightness independent of how influential he was/wasn't?)

    Also..from the link.

    In a formal logical system, that is, a set of propositions that are consistent with one another, it is probable that some of the statements can be deduced from one another. For example, in the syllogism, "All men are mortal; Socrates is a man; Socrates is mortal" the last claim can be deduced from the first two.
    I see no contradiction to what I'm saying.
    It has assumption (valid ones, I would say..but who am I too say? who is anyone to say?) but assumptions nonetheless.

    And with that..I'm done for the night..

  9. #99
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mkenya View Post
    Lol..so a guy (an influential guy, yes) said something and that makes it true..

    How about forming a position based on how YOU perceive the world..and stop clinging to how some guy who you've never met perceives the world. Since when was Aristotle god? Aristotle was human..just like the rest of us. And I've never even heard of Ibn Sina..does that make it more or less likely that he was right (or is my and/or his rightness independent of how influential he was/wasn't?)
    Did you not understand the meaning of the quote? Because that's, you know, the important part.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Did you not understand the meaning of the quote? Because that's, you know, the important part.
    Damn you for keeping me up...lol

    The first quote? I gained some meaning from it..possibly a different meaning than what you intended...
    In short..I don't follow..elaborate.

    I'll check in the morning.

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