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View Poll Results: Do you believe in astrology?

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  • SP - believes in astrology

    1 2.13%
  • SP - does not believe in astrology

    3 6.38%
  • SJ - believes in astrology

    0 0%
  • SJ - does not believe in astrology

    2 4.26%
  • NT - believes in astrology

    7 14.89%
  • NT - does not believe in astrology

    11 23.40%
  • NF - believes in astrology

    6 12.77%
  • NF - does not believe in astrology

    17 36.17%
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Results 41 to 50 of 57

  1. #41
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Well I don't know how to explain my opinion any more clearly, and you've explained yours well, so I guess we'll just have to disagree.
    Yes, and that's ok.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    @greenfairy

    It only appears to go both ways because if somebody is typed completely wrong, you contest it or correct it.

    This is why it would be absurd to have an INTJ that has never acted like an INTJ.

    Typology does not address causes at all. It categorizes observed results - period. Being an NF or whatever is not a material cause of anything. It's an arbitrary category. It's a handle. It's not like there's some kind of typology genes or typology synapses, and overall it doesn't matter because it cares how you act, not how you got that way.

    Saying that one is an NF for example doesn't explain anything about how one even came to have that function or why they have it. There could be hundreds of physical ways to arrive at a similar function.


    I know people believe otherwise but those people are wrong.
    End of.

    Edit:
    Typology is like taxonomy without being able to actually see the animals, and only going by what they eat, how they sound, their footprints, etc etc. This is why there are behaviors and classes that don't fit. You might think you're following a jaguar but it could actually be a leopard - you don't really know what it actually is.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Are you suggesting that monotheism makes more sense than polytheism? Pardon me if the answer lies earlier in the thread.

    I could ping pong the two stances back and forth all day. To me, though, it's like asking if dog shit or cat shit smells better. One factor I particularly enjoy of polytheisism is dualism, but I do not necessarily believe that must be attributed to polytheistic systems.


    I also think I completely overshot your line of questioning. What I meant in my original statement was that I have noticed some types of people reject monotheistic gods on grounds that it is illogical but then accept astrology as an influential factor of the universe. The only correlative thought I have been able to compile is perhaps that planetary's gravitational effects have some sort of influence over the physics involved during the initial stages of contraception.... or something equally far-fetched. Like seasonal temperature. Who knows.


    Do you have anything relatively scientific on the subject?

  4. #44
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    I could ping pong the two stances back and forth all day. To me, though, it's like asking if dog shit or cat shit smells better. One factor I particularly enjoy of polytheisism is dualism, but I do not necessarily believe that must be attributed to polytheistic systems.


    I also think I completely overshot your line of questioning. What I meant in my original statement was that I have noticed some types of people reject monotheistic gods on grounds that it is illogical but then accept astrology as an influential factor of the universe. The only correlative thought I have been able to compile is perhaps that planetary's gravitational effects have some sort of influence over the physics involved during the initial stages of contraception.... or something equally far-fetched. Like seasonal temperature. Who knows.


    Do you have anything relatively scientific on the subject?
    I don't, unfortunately. The far fetched gravitational influence is enough for me. I think science is extremely limited in its scope of knowledge, and if things make sense to me intuitively based on the patterns in the universe I've observed, then I think I can safely believe it. If things contradict those principles and patterns and don't make logical sense to me then that's when I criticize a belief. Otherwise I don't really care what people believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Yes, and that's ok.
    One last try. I edited my post, I don't know if you saw. Does this make any sense to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Edit: Ok, I'll have another go at it. How's this: categories and the things they describe create each other. You can't really have one without the other and have a deep understanding of things. Arguably you can create order out of chaos, but if you are only seeing chaos, you are not seeing the organizing principles behind it, and the categories are used to describe them. It's like a filing cabinet. You can either get one and label the drawers before you have anything to put in it, or you can have a huge pile of papers, put them into smaller piles, and then decide you need a filing cabinet. The drawers exist for the purpose of having papers, but they can also be used to decide where a paper goes if you are confused. And within the drawers are folders and subfolders, divided into sections. The larger and more general the category, the more explanatory power it has because it's describing an underlying more general principle. Like Ti and Te are subcategories of thinking. We use these concepts to describe certain cognitive processes which produce behavior. We all think and we all feel, we all sense and intuit, and this system of organization is true independent of specific behavior.

    Maybe at this point we are debating semantics, but there is a two directional process to it.

  5. #45
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    I've decided I truly don't care anymore what anyone on here thinks about me and my opinions, because I don't hang out with any of you irl, and none of you affects my future academic career. So if people want to think I'm just a crazy hippie I'm not going to get upset about it or spend much time trying to change their minds. I'll express my opinions as clearly as I can, and that's all I can do. And then I'll get back to studying philosophy and Japanese.

    Edit: (Not that I'm assuming you think this about me Sprinkles. Just a general declaration.)

  6. #46
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    One last try. I edited my post, I don't know if you saw. Does this make any sense to you?
    It makes sense to me.

    It's just that from my perspective, there are things and then there are names of things, and that's just about it.

    To me, a psychological trait is an abstract categorical item with no material existence in itself. From my view, the causes occur in brain chemistry - the base mechanics of it - and this is what results in the traits.

    A trait by definition is not a thing unto itself but rather describes something about the thing and/or person in question.

  7. #47
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Actually, I was curious if Ni types might be fascinated with it more than others. There are NTJ posters who come to mind who talk about it, for example.

    I think it's worth entertaining, but I don't make much of it myself. The "portraits" for my reading (Cancer sun/Scorpio moon/Virgo rising) are kind of neat, but I barely glance at predictions.
    Yes I think Ni types are more likely to accept it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I am a Virgo/Libra with AQR moon, Leo Rising, most of my planets are in the 2nd house, I have scorpio on mars, leo on venus, and I've read my whole birth chart over and over and felt it totally described me. I also grew up with a ex hippy mom that regularly read tarot cards and tea leaves to the neighbor ladies.

    I DO NOT believe in astrolgoy any longer. AT ALL. I went 15 yrs of studying it like crazy, doing others birth charts, and had ALOT of crazy Random coincidences occur. I will tell you what changed my mind. An astrologer did a 30 yr study on it. He took over 200 babys all born on the same day, at the same time, in the same area. All babys had the EXACT same birth chart, right down to the rising. He followed the babies on and off for 30 yrs. He analyzed growth, personality, appearance, intelligence, hobbies, etc.. he checked in with the babys and parents twice a year for 30 yrs. At the end of the study he found less than a 3% consistency in charactoristics. They all had very different personalities, life experiences, hobbies, intelligence, totally random. This was a guy who had followed astrology his whole life, he had written books, and he came out and admitted that his study revealed no connection at all. I can't remember his name or the name of the study because as soon as I realized what a bunch of crap it was I vowed to not waste another minute looking into it.
    Woah, that sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I voted NF - believes in astrology but then realized WTF I thought I was talking about NFs having bogus beleifs in astrology NOT ACTUALLY SAYING I AM ONE WHICH OF COURSE I AM NOT!
    I almost did kinda the same thing ha ha


    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Astronomy has shown astrology to be untrue, to be false. So astrology is a false belief.

    I remember addressing a small group of astronomers and asked an astrology question, and they just laughed. And the astonomers laughed because astrology is laughable.

    And yet hundreds of millions believe the false belief of astrology. Why, go to the back of any women's magazine, and we will discover pages of astrology but not one page of astronomy.

    And still, astrology is the Ur-religion, the religion that is template for all the other religions.

    So astrology is a form of psychological manipulation, a time honoured form of trance induction, followed by other religions right down to the present day, even to mbti. So mbti is simply astrology for the college educated.

    I didn't think of astology as a religion template. I get the other stuff your talking about and the overall picture how it relates. But my family is super religious...they think astrology is the devil...pure evil. So how can it be the template for all other religions?


    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I can definitely see the logic of this assumption. For myself personally, I am 100% turned off by it. It may be because I've already been hoodwinked once into believing crazy stuff when growing up, so i may be a bit more rationalistic and Ti oriented than many Ni people.

    I think it appeals to people who trust established systems, desire to have resolution and conclusion about subjective, intangible aspects of reality. There is also a strong social bonding that happens in astrology environments. I am surrounded by hippie artists who assume belief in astrology when chatting. It is almost like sports or the weather. I find it alienating and disappointing because I am a bit repulsed by the arbitrary nature of it. I see irrational belief as a potential threat to survival, well being, and good choices.
    I agree with the bold becuase i know I do that myself. Mostly having the desire for resolution and conclusion.



    IMO I think I have learned a lot from astrology. I think it's a great tool for self discovery and learning about your own shadows.(If it fits you) I do acknowledge that some things don't fit certain people...But just because it's not proven by a scientist or astronomer doesn't mean that it's impossible. I also know that if you don't have all your moon, and sun, and planet signs...your regular month sign might not match you. So people might think it's inaccurate, just because they're born in a certain month... Cause that doesn't have as much to do with it.

    The more I looked into it the more the descriptions fit me. I actually find a correlation more with the months and cetain types...such as if you're an ISFJ and a Virgo(I know 3)...you're more likely to fit the Virgo description...Or me being an ENTJ and an Aries. Or Libra's being ISFP's. Those descrptions can be very similar. But i know that's just me wanting to have a big overall relation between all great things lol.

    Even after reading the story about that study I still wont change my mind on astrology not being completely wrong. I think people have a way of twisting things and getting things wrong.(unintentionally)

    But my belief is not changed only because I think I'm being logical(ha ha) holding on to the fact that the stars and the planets have an effect on us. An example would be that the moon has an effect on us...It's scientifically proven. (As long as you believe in the theory of gravity) So I cannot deny a celectrial force upon us. We just may be interpreting it wrong. Doesn't mean that the universe and galaxy doesn't effect us...

    To me it's like: Just because science has some theories and just cause there's non-scientific theories doesn't mean they're right...But it also doesn't mean that they BOTH can't be right...sort of like meeting in the middle. Just cause we have not bridged the gap doesn't mean there isn't a bridge.

    I'm Ni aux and I love whimsical things
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  8. #48
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I've decided I truly don't care anymore what anyone on here thinks about me and my opinions, because I don't hang out with any of you irl, and none of you affects my future academic career. So if people want to think I'm just a crazy hippie I'm not going to get upset about it or spend much time trying to change their minds. I'll express my opinions as clearly as I can, and that's all I can do. And then I'll get back to studying philosophy and Japanese.

    Edit: (Not that I'm assuming you think this about me Sprinkles. Just a general declaration.)
    I don't think you're a crazy hippie
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  9. #49
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I don't think the presence of the belief itself is type related. I do feel that how people explain/rationalize that belief will be type-contingent, tho.
    Let's see how ol' Carl the corpse explained his interest:

    "My evenings are taken up very largely with astrology. I make horoscopic calculations in order to find a clue to the psychological truth."
    — C.G. Jung (In a letter to Sigmund Freud.)

    "One can expect with considerable assurance, that a given well-defined psychological situation will be accompanied by an analogous astrological configuration."
    — C.G. Jung

    "While studying astrology I have applied it to concrete cases many times. The experiment is most suggestive to a versatile mind, unreliable in the hands of the unimaginative, and dangerous in the hands of a fool, as those intuitive methods always are. If intelligently used the experiment is useful in cases where it is a matter of an opaque structure. It often provides surprising insights. The most definite limit of the experiment is lack of intelligence and literal-mindedness of the observer.

    Undoubtedly astrology today is flourishing as never before in the past, but it is still most unsatisfactorily explored despite very frequent use. It is an apt tool
    only when used intelligently. It is not at all foolproof and when used by a rationalistic and narrow mind it is a definite nuisance. "
    — C. G. Jung: Letters, volume 2, 1951-1961, pages 463-464, letter to Robert L. Kroon, 15 November 1958.

    If he used astrology, who would be dumb enough to buy into any of his psychological type crap. Right?

  10. #50
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Let's see how ol' Carl the corpse explained his interest:

    "My evenings are taken up very largely with astrology. I make horoscopic calculations in order to find a clue to the psychological truth."
    — C.G. Jung (In a letter to Sigmund Freud.)

    "One can expect with considerable assurance, that a given well-defined psychological situation will be accompanied by an analogous astrological configuration."
    — C.G. Jung

    "While studying astrology I have applied it to concrete cases many times. The experiment is most suggestive to a versatile mind, unreliable in the hands of the unimaginative, and dangerous in the hands of a fool, as those intuitive methods always are. If intelligently used the experiment is useful in cases where it is a matter of an opaque structure. It often provides surprising insights. The most definite limit of the experiment is lack of intelligence and literal-mindedness of the observer.

    Undoubtedly astrology today is flourishing as never before in the past, but it is still most unsatisfactorily explored despite very frequent use. It is an apt tool
    only when used intelligently. It is not at all foolproof and when used by a rationalistic and narrow mind it is a definite nuisance. "
    — C. G. Jung: Letters, volume 2, 1951-1961, pages 463-464, letter to Robert L. Kroon, 15 November 1958.

    If he used astrology, who would be dumb enough to buy into any of his psychological type crap. Right?
    Ha ha nice!
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

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