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View Poll Results: Do you believe in astrology?

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  • SP - believes in astrology

    1 2.13%
  • SP - does not believe in astrology

    3 6.38%
  • SJ - believes in astrology

    0 0%
  • SJ - does not believe in astrology

    2 4.26%
  • NT - believes in astrology

    7 14.89%
  • NT - does not believe in astrology

    11 23.40%
  • NF - believes in astrology

    6 12.77%
  • NF - does not believe in astrology

    17 36.17%
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Results 21 to 30 of 57

  1. #21
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    @greenfairy

    The way to identify cognitive function is by behavior. It doesn't work in reverse. Archetypes in this case work based on an observed precedent.

    Typology doesn't truly address the cause of behaviors, it categorizes them. There is no "I act this way because I'm an INFJ" since to even know that one is an INFJ, they must first know how they act, so therefore it is rather "I'm an INFJ because I act this way"

    There are certain linked correlations of behaviors which lead to categorization of cognitive functions, and propensities for whatever, but once again to know what functions one uses, they must know their behaviors first. Functions cannot be assigned before behavior.

    Another issue is that in astrology, one has their sign before they are ever born, which is hypothetically describing a person who does not yet exist. That is more of a predictive archetype which is hard to rationalize any kind of basis for.

  2. #22
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    @greenfairy

    The way to identify cognitive function is by behavior. It doesn't work in reverse. Archetypes in this case work based on an observed precedent.

    Typology doesn't truly address the cause of behaviors, it categorizes them. There is no "I act this way because I'm an INFJ" since to even know that one is an INFJ, they must first know how they act, so therefore it is rather "I'm an INFJ because I act this way"

    There are certain linked correlations of behaviors which lead to categorization of cognitive functions, and propensities for whatever, but once again to know what functions one uses, they must know their behaviors first. Functions cannot be assigned before behavior.
    As many people have pointed out, it's not all about behavior. It is about motivations for behavior, under which circumstances one behaves a certain way, and cognitive functioning. Not all behavior can be categorized in MBTI, so there must be something higher. Psychology is a complex thing and comes before actions. It is the causes of actions we are focusing on when looking at a type as a whole. In determining my type I don't think I've used behavior much at all; I've looked at characteristics, preferences, responses, motivations, patterns of energy expenditure, emotions, underlying beliefs, values, and how the functions interact with each other in the particular type hierarchies. Most of this is not directly observable and requires a lot of conceptual analysis and knowledge of systems. The whole system is based on categorization of a person's mental processes, which lead to associated behaviors. We all think and feel, we all think about things objectively and subjectively; explaining differences requires establishing these categories before they are applied to any individuals. We first have a system for categorizing causes of behavior based on analysis of cognitive functioning, and then based on behavior and psychological patterns we fit the individuals with the categories and use the categories to predict behaviors. I see your point, but it definitely goes both ways in both typology and astrology.

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Another issue is that in astrology, one has their sign before they are ever born, which is hypothetically describing a person who does not yet exist. That is more of a predictive archetype which is hard to rationalize any kind of basis for.
    This I agree with.

  3. #23
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    The False Belief of Astrology and the Science of Astronomy

    Astronomy has shown astrology to be untrue, to be false. So astrology is a false belief.

    I remember addressing a small group of astronomers and asked an astrology question, and they just laughed. And the astonomers laughed because astrology is laughable.

    And yet hundreds of millions believe the false belief of astrology. Why, go to the back of any women's magazine, and we will discover pages of astrology but not one page of astronomy.

    And still, astrology is the Ur-religion, the religion that is template for all the other religions.

    So astrology is a form of psychological manipulation, a time honoured form of trance induction, followed by other religions right down to the present day, even to mbti. So mbti is simply astrology for the college educated.

  4. #24
    your resident asshole
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    I believe in science...so no.

  5. #25
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I am a Virgo/Libra with AQR moon, Leo Rising, most of my planets are in the 2nd house, I have scorpio on mars, leo on venus, and I've read my whole birth chart over and over and felt it totally described me. I also grew up with a ex hippy mom that regularly read tarot cards and tea leaves to the neighbor ladies.

    I DO NOT believe in astrolgoy any longer. AT ALL. I went 15 yrs of studying it like crazy, doing others birth charts, and had ALOT of crazy Random coincidences occur. I will tell you what changed my mind. An astrologer did a 30 yr study on it. He took over 200 babys all born on the same day, at the same time, in the same area. All babys had the EXACT same birth chart, right down to the rising. He followed the babies on and off for 30 yrs. He analyzed growth, personality, appearance, intelligence, hobbies, etc.. he checked in with the babys and parents twice a year for 30 yrs. At the end of the study he found less than a 3% consistency in charactoristics. They all had very different personalities, life experiences, hobbies, intelligence, totally random. This was a guy who had followed astrology his whole life, he had written books, and he came out and admitted that his study revealed no connection at all. I can't remember his name or the name of the study because as soon as I realized what a bunch of crap it was I vowed to not waste another minute looking into it.
    That's why I don't believe it... but I never read any study. Chinese astrology goes by year, and yet those in the same age range possess wildly different mannerisms. Why should Western astrology be the exception? I mean, the central premise - that there are correlations between man and the rest of the universe - is common sense IMO and can be recorded through scientific statistical analysis. However, the specific "connections" between the fate of individuals and the heavens, according the western astrology, are completely arbitrary and as out of focus as a telescopic lens can get, mainly because they are vague and yet individualized. It seems like an individual of any natal chart could reap more significance from reading the horoscope of every natal chart as though the process was as applicable as a particular forecast.

    EDIT: I completely understand how astrology serves as a life-affirming, existential tool. But... there is far more depth to existence.

  6. #26
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    @greenfairy

    It only appears to go both ways because if somebody is typed completely wrong, you contest it or correct it.

    This is why it would be absurd to have an INTJ that has never acted like an INTJ.

    Typology does not address causes at all. It categorizes observed results - period. Being an NF or whatever is not a material cause of anything. It's an arbitrary category. It's a handle. It's not like there's some kind of typology genes or typology synapses, and overall it doesn't matter because it cares how you act, not how you got that way.

    Saying that one is an NF for example doesn't explain anything about how one even came to have that function or why they have it. There could be hundreds of physical ways to arrive at a similar function.


    I know people believe otherwise but those people are wrong.
    End of.

    Edit:
    Typology is like taxonomy without being able to actually see the animals, and only going by what they eat, how they sound, their footprints, etc etc. This is why there are behaviors and classes that don't fit. You might think you're following a jaguar but it could actually be a leopard - you don't really know what it actually is.

  7. #27
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    I don't think the presence of the belief itself is type related. I do feel that how people explain/rationalize that belief will be type-contingent, tho.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  8. #28
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I don't think the presence of the belief itself is type related. I do feel that how people explain/rationalize that belief will be type-contingent, tho.
    This exactly. Since all a type is for is to give a name to a set of tendencies. It's not some kind of mechanic - we have other fields to cover that.

    It seems like a mechanic at times because the purpose of a descriptive type is of course to describe the aspect of the thing it relates to, but that is just the nature of description. Just like spheres are round and roll down hills, but there is no more to the 'sphereness' of the sphere other than it being itself, simply because it isn't something else (a square sphere that doesn't roll for example - it stops being a sphere) and being round is the property that allows rolling to happen, but is not the mechanic that causes the rolling.

    So of course a description seems to correlate to itself. Because it does and can't do otherwise since that is the purpose of a description.

  9. #29
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    WHAT THE HELL, ~50% of each type believes in astrology?

    I'm just going to go ahead and assume low sampling size bias + joke votes + people being drawn to vote more if they're interested. Because otherwise I fear for humanity.
    -end of thread-

  10. #30
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    WHAT THE HELL, ~50% of each type believes in astrology?

    I'm just going to go ahead and assume low sampling size bias + joke votes + people being drawn to vote more if they're interested. Because otherwise I fear for humanity.
    Why, do you have compelling arguments/facts to discredit the whole theory?

    If not you don't necessarily have to fear for humanity.

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