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  1. #41
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    So here's what I want to know (inspired by the Mock Emotions thread):

    1) When you talk about feelings/emotions, how do you experience them?
    Well there's other times when I talk about feelings/emotions in just an analytical, symbolic way.

    An extremely enlightening way this thing was represented was in the second Matrix movie, I believe.. or was it the third?

    Neo was discussing with a program, wondering why he felt love. "Isn't that an emotion?"

    -No, it's just a word.

    So, one part when I talk about emotions is just word processing. I hope you're not overly disappointed of the fact.
    ----
    Quite very often I'm in the mood to go by my feelings alone. My profile type info gives my type as TiFi and that's no joke. Those are my top two functions. So more often than usual for an ENTP I give in to a deep discussion, funny, cute discussion.. play on feelings.. perhaps a touch, smile, good music.. I'll just feel and live, but I don't necessarily feel the need to talk about it. If I'm sharing a great moment with someone.. like great concert with some friend of mine, or some awesome evening with a lady friend, that's more because we tune in to the feelings, and we share them.. not because we would talk that much about them.

    But when I do talk about feelings, it's most often an intense, deep two-person heart-sharing episode. Then I'm open and I feel like .. oh It's hard to describe. It consumes me. It takes every bone in my body.

    2) Do you always go on your feelings? Do you feel that your emotions are "trustworthy?" Do you ever feel like your view of a situation is clouded by your personal feelings?
    I'm mostly a thinker, but almost even on being a feeler. Many logical, sensible things follow from being a thinker. Yet, that leaves very much in the open. I think most of the days my feelings play a big part of what I do, if not the most. Really. It's more like feelings tell me what I should do, and thinking how I should do it.

    Emotions are one base on which I based my life after suicide feelings. So yes I trust them, care about them and cherish them. It's my reality to enjoy illogical feelings and where they take me, and it doesn't make me less of a wise man, quite the contrary.

    I think my personal feelings cloud my judgement perhaps 2 times a month in mostly minor issues.
    3) How does the feeling translate into action?
    I live in the moment, I am open, I want to share experiences and my internal self with the people. I may be motivated, exhilarated, and I do a lot then. I let my feelings influence my general mood rather lot, but there's a certain "playground area" I allow for them - it's a very large area, but in the end, it's my Thinking that's the Border Guard. My feelings taking me away from the area without a valid passport, my Border Guard says "access denied", most often. It's the rational thought processes that are my king and my president in the end. I like how the work and the responsibility is shared between my right and left brain
    4) Anything else you feel like sharing. I'm just a T, so I'm not even sure how to word all this in F language.
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    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #42
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    1) When you talk about feelings/emotions, how do you experience them? well if it's intense It some times feels their's a giant slimy ball of yarn in my stomach or I'm the inside of me is shrinking and the outside is becoming just a shell. If you hug me when I'm mad then hug me when I'm not I will remember being mad and the hug will bring up all the bad feelings. Which is why I only like being hugged on good occasions.Though when I'm in a large crowd it's like I sense everyone's elses emotions but i can never pin point who is feeling what. In school I would randomly feel these really strong emotions of frustration or just general yuckiness and could not figure out why then a few minutes later or so someone will start complaining about something, and it matches my emotional state perfectly. I've learned how to block those feelings the problem is I have to turn off/ignore my own feelings.

    2) Do you always go on your feelings? Do you feel that your emotions are "trustworthy?" Do you ever feel like your view of a situation is clouded by your personal feelings? It depends on the situation for most relationship things yeah, but if it's like how to get some where I trust a map unless I've been their once before then I can often "feel" my way around and even sometimes if I haven't I can still figure out how to get their. Sometimes yes sometimes no like I said depends on the situation. If I have a strong emotional connection to the person and situation then yes I couldn't imagine not. I could never be totally objective for someone I loved.
    3) How does the feeling translate into action? ummm not sure.
    4) Anything else you feel like sharing. I'm just a T, so I'm not even sure how to word all this in F language.Sorry if this sucks.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  3. #43
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    A question for all "feelers."

    I was just replying on another thread and think I might be getting a clearer picture. As a "thinker," when I'm conversing with someone, for instance, my mind works in a logical way. I'm fitting what they say into a logical construct. If they skip a part of that construct, I will have to ask for the fillin. In seeing this in myself, it might be answering my own question on why I don't, typically, experience emotions... ie: I'm involved in a mental process. If an emotion crops up to interfere with that process or get me off track, I push it down or I won't be able to follow the conversation due to the way I think. That may sound extreme to a "feeler" but that's how it is. At a point, I choose thought over feeling to continue on. So, the question is... do you make that kind of choice routinely? I don't mean in extreme situations or when you have to make a decision... just more what your routine state-of-being is.

    And, just out of curiosity, are you learning anything you never really thought about before about your own process? Like I never really knew I even had feelings routinely. I didn't know I experience them even though they're weak and fleeting nor how being "T" dominant manifests. I'm seeing that its as natural as breathing to me... in fact, essential to it and how very much emotion clogs these natural tendencies... kind of like trying to breath in a smoke-filled room.

  4. #44
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    A question for all "feelers."

    I was just replying on another thread and think I might be getting a clearer picture. As a "thinker," when I'm conversing with someone, for instance, my mind works in a logical way. I'm fitting what they say into a logical construct. If they skip a part of that construct, I will have to ask for the fillin.
    For myself, I fit what they're saying into my overall understanding of who they are as a person, how they think and approach things, and what the experience was like for them. Their 'gaps', even if I notice the gaps, are interesting as well, because then the gaps themselves tell me something about them. I want them to tell me the story in their own way.

    I think it depends on the context for me. If I'm just chatting with someone, or they're telling me something, I'll listen, and yeah, even if I might notice 'inconsistencies', I don't feel the need to point those out. I might file it away, or inquire into it later on, but it doesn't need immediate attention. But I also ask questions, don't get me wrong. If I'm not following what someone is saying, or if they're saying something that intrigues me, I will likely ask more specific questions about it. I'm definitely one for clarification, but I don't recognize a need for a 'logical framework' in myself, when it comes to interacting with people on a personal level.

    At work? Those types of conversations? Sure, things must be logical. For example, in a meeting today, I was one of the few people who spoke up and said, 'That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. There's no value add to doing that. Things are far more complicated by doing that, than by not doing that. Etc.' [hehe..and my boss knows me well..she will look to me and say, 'Any more thoughts??'...cause it's evident she can tell when I'm brooding over something :-P]

    I hesitate though to say whether all of the above is strictly 'Feeling'. I tend to think it's a combo of my other functions as well, in how *I* specifically process things. Like I mentioned in my initial [long] post in this thread, I am pretty sure the 8 Feeling types will have some substantial differences.

    In seeing this in myself, it might be answering my own question on why I don't, typically, experience emotions... ie: I'm involved in a mental process. If an emotion crops up to interfere with that process or get me off track, I push it down or I won't be able to follow the conversation due to the way I think. That may sound extreme to a "feeler" but that's how it is. At a point, I choose thought over feeling to continue on. So, the question is... do you make that kind of choice routinely? I don't mean in extreme situations or when you have to make a decision... just more what your routine state-of-being is.
    I think I understand what you're saying regarding your own processes, and that emotions tend to get in the way of what you're ultimately wanting to seek/gain out of it?

    As for myself, I don't know. Actually I'll direct you to my blog because I added some additional thoughts there about this earlier today.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    For myself, I fit what they're saying into my overall understanding of who they are as a person, how they think and approach things, and what the experience was like for them. Their 'gaps', even if I notice the gaps, are interesting as well, because then the gaps themselves tell me something about them. I want them to tell me the story in their own way.

    I think it depends on the context for me. If I'm just chatting with someone, or they're telling me something, I'll listen, and yeah, even if I might notice 'inconsistencies', I don't feel the need to point those out. I might file it away, or inquire into it later on, but it doesn't need immediate attention. But I also ask questions, don't get me wrong. If I'm not following what someone is saying, or if they're saying something that intrigues me, I will likely ask more specific questions about it. I'm definitely one for clarification, but I don't recognize a need for a 'logical framework' in myself, when it comes to interacting with people on a personal level.

    At work? Those types of conversations? Sure, things must be logical. For example, in a meeting today, I was one of the few people who spoke up and said, 'That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. There's no value add to doing that. Things are far more complicated by doing that, than by not doing that. Etc.' [hehe..and my boss knows me well..she will look to me and say, 'Any more thoughts??'...cause it's evident she can tell when I'm brooding over something :-P]

    I hesitate though to say whether all of the above is strictly 'Feeling'. I tend to think it's a combo of my other functions as well, in how *I* specifically process things. Like I mentioned in my initial [long] post in this thread, I am pretty sure the 8 Feeling types will have some substantial differences.
    That does make it difficult.

    For example, your description seems to include a mix of Ni, Fe, and Ti style interaction. But other F's might approach things very differently.

    Note the F involved with ESFP, for example. That's an SeFi combination.

    So they usually bounce from topic to topic -- sort of like a conversational buffet without rhyme or reason except something is either new or else appeals (or doesn't) to their Fi. They express their emotions mercurially as well in a conversation -- when they're irritated, they show dramatic anger, and as soon as the irritation is gone, they're happy and warm.

    My son just drives me nutty sometimes because of this. He's an awful storyteller because he has no idea how to distill the narrative thread out of his description -- you hear EVERY detail, most of them distracting, and wonder halfway through what the point is, and meanwhile he is laughing insanely because to him the story makes complete sense!

    But this is Se at work largely, not F... if you really look at it. The Fi (I think) means he describes the details that are important to HIM... even if others have no idea what his inner map looks like. So he thinks people are following him, but they're all getting lost. The ESTP (SeTi) meanwhile shares a broader more impersonal (i.e., standardized/accessible by thinking) map, so they tend to explain things more coherently.

    Pulling this all together, to support what you said, I think different combinations of functions result in a different level of need for structure in the conversation.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #46
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    I posted this on a blog and it was a response to a post. I thought it pertinent here too.

    Here's what I think I'm learning. (Edit: from the Feeler/Thinker/Blog) Neither the "F" nor the "T" is of more value than the other. Neither approach is a choice in its demanded dominance. Its no different than being male or female... they're different, surely, but equal values(parity.) One cannot place value judgements on them nor force one's self into being the other.

    Of course, everyone thinks. Of course, everyone feels. The difference lies in which approach is necessary/required in the individual to be most effective as a human being. To ask an "F" to function as a "T" would disable them into paralysis.... likewise for the "T" trying to be "F." For instance, strong negative emotion does, quite literally, incapacitate me. Perhaps to explain to an "F" I would have to define it as rage which they've surely experienced... rage hinders the ability to think and, consequently, make wise choices. The enraged person is somewhat senseless. For me, as a "T," what an "F" might experience as simple anger interferes with me just as rage would to an "F." So, yes, if I do ever experience anger, I will immediately push it down in order to think. It has, now, become so automatic that I perceive it as not ever experiencing anger.

    This one is pretty easily understood but becomes "murkier" or harder to grasp for an "F" I'm sure when the whole gamut of emotional possibilities are considered... those they might see as more positive emotions... but the same thing occur generally speaking. All I can say is this "pushing down" in order to stay effectively present is an automatic, normal, process. The responses in the face of inhibiting emotion are learned from others. That doesn't mean we're cold, uncaring, people... we just need to stay focused in thought to be effective if we're going to stay connected to/with them. Which is, surely, what we find required by our caring. Caring, for us, lies more in our thoughts about the person and their needs rather than emotional identification or connection with them.

  7. #47
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    I was trying to figure out how I generate and balance feelings and logical thoughts. To me, it's all pretty much "associations." If a situation is new and I don't have long-standing logical rules or emotional priorities for parsing something, then I brainstorm, and pretty much anything goes. Logical thoughts lead to feelings, and feelings lead to logical thoughts.

    Also, it's all "data." Either type of input--feelings or logical thoughts--may take priority depending on the situation. Experience and context teach me the best way to prioritize them.

    Here are a couple examples. They make for a long post. But I figured I might as well go into detail for those who might want that level of analysis.

    Examples:

    1) Neutral task using both thoughts and feelings: I have several errands to do around town, and I want to figure out the best route for doing the errands. I'll look at the list of tasks and basically free associate. Logical thoughts will almost certainly come first; I'll put the errands in a couple different orders based on location, to see which routes will be the most efficient. But as one or two routes start firming up as the most logical ones, I'll see the routes in my mind's eye and I'll start having feelings about them: I dislike certain intersections because they are busy or difficult to maneuver, I feel that some routes are barren and ugly, etc. I'll take those feelings into consideration alongside the logistic considerations and prioritize according to whether a pretty or interesting route takes me much longer than an ugly, boring route. Also, there are feeling considerations of "fun." For example, it may be logical to do the hardware store before the grocery store. But I'll picture the hardware store, get a pleasurable feeling at the idea of prowling around aisles of the hardware store, and decide to put the hardware store before the grocery store so that I can take extra time in the former and not have to worry about groceries getting warm in the trunk.

    In that scenario, feelings are just data alongside thoughts, and in coming to decisions I may place logical considerations over feelings or vice versa, depending on priorities.

    2) Logical task that rules out feelings: The work flow is drying up, and I have to cut back the list of contractors whom I employ to do the work. In this case, free association is going to be problematic. I have years of relationships with contractors and even personal friendships with some of them. But I have to look at things in terms of financial considerations (the best value for the buck), and I basically want to rule out personal feelings and instead make judgments according to a couple simple logical considerations such as reliability and technical skill. a) So first I'll clarify and pinpoint the logical considerations. b) Then I'll go down the list of contractors and see how well each contractor fits the logical considerations. Since that's kind of "associative" (considering past performance to match personal attributes to criteria), some feeling considerations will come up as well; but I'll be rigid about ruling them out. c) Once I have a tentative list in hand, I'll look at both groups (included and excluded) and see how I "feel" about them. Feelings are data too, and a strong feeling in the case of a borderline contractor may cause me to reconsider. A negative feeling about an "included" contractor may remind me of a time when that contractor let me down and wasted my time, and I may decide that I would prefer to go with a less talented but more reliable contractor on the "excluded" list. (It's basically a logical consideration, but the data are retrieved through associative feeling paths.)

    In this example, some strong personal feelings may arise based on personal connections and friendships with contractors. But that can be handled as data too. If I really pity a contractor for personal reasons and have given him some work in the past to help him out financially, I may welcome the opportunity to finally exclude him once and for all. That is, I may have felt conflicted in the past about passing over better contractors in order to help a weaker one but felt I could justify it when there was a lot of work available; now that work is scarce, I may welcome the opportunity of strong logical reasons to remove that conflict of interest once and for all and deny the weak contractor any further work (and at the same time still pity him and feel bad that I can't help him out any further).

    3) Feeling task that rules out logic: I'm standing around bored on a city street waiting for a ride, and I decide to occupy my mind by seeing how I feel about the architecture of the surrounding buildings. I'm not an architect, and I really just want a feeling-based evaluation. Some feeling associations are easy: Brick is warm, shiny metal is fun, concrete is bland, intricacy is interesting. But if the buildings are bland and boxy, I may use logical considerations to help me generate some feeling associations. For example, if I'm getting nothing about a building, I'll choose to analyze the buildings in terms of symmetry: Are the columns outside the entryway reflected elsewhere in the structure of the building? Then I'll analyze the building in terms of design features like window facings. Then I'll analyze the entryway for ease of access and foot traffic. And so on.

    This kind of analysis and parsing of details doesn't come naturally to me, so I have to do it rather deliberately and consciously. But it forces me to notice the building in greater detail, and I start compiling a list of feeling-based pluses and minuses based on the conclusions I draw. Eventually I can derive an overall "feeling" about the building based on an accumulation of impressions and associations connected with the details.

    In this case, logic and analysis assist me in generating feelings. But the end result is pretty much just a feeling--I like the building or I don't.

    One quick note about the feelings: Again, they are largely associative. Given architecture or art, I may ponder a distinctive feature and get nothing for a few moments. But then I associate it with something--a memory of a building in the past or even something non-architectural--and I derive a feeling from the past thing or perhaps from some tension (compatibility or incompatibility) in the association itself.

    Same thing applies to logical thoughts: They can be largely associative. If I have already established preferred logical rules for parsing something, I'll used the established rules. But I don't know much about architecture. So in the case of architecture, the choice of what criteria to use in parsing a bland building (symmetry, detailing) is pretty much arbitrary. The building determines the criteria, via association. I'll parse different buildings different ways, sometimes using quite arbitrary criteria.

    [Edit: And frankly, feelings about people are generated pretty much the same way. Associations (based on feelings about similar known people), weighting of feelings about different personal factors, and even analysis starting from logical considerations--to help me generate feelings when I'm getting an ambiguous vibe or to help me parse between conflicting strong feelings.]

  8. #48
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    If we talk about MBTI's Feeling meaning the orientation to people:
    Feeling is taking people into account.
    Feeling is putting people first.

  9. #49
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    1) When you talk about feelings/emotions, how do you experience them?
    In waves of color, surges in my body, flashes in my brain taken up with energy by the whole of my nervous system.

    2) Do you always go on your feelings?
    No.


    Do you feel that your emotions are "trustworthy?"
    99.9% of the time, yes. It's animal instinct. I've learned to hold it back, but not dismiss it.


    Do you ever feel like your view of a situation is clouded by your personal feelings?
    Certainly. Reason #305 "Why Pink Can Never Be a Lawyer, Oncologist, Vet or Social Worker".


    3) How does the feeling translate into action?
    Pleasant: If I want to go to someone who's suffering and get down in the hole with them, I just go. I don't think of the mud on my clothes, the distance or the darkness below ground. My only objective is to get to them. If I want to encourage, kiss or hold someone because they're happy, I do it. I read their body language and their eyes and I know it's all right to touch them. Some people just want you to connect to them, validate their humanity.

    Unpleasant: My sister in the hospital. I knew the difference between her having a low moment and her being in DANGER. I laid awake kicking the rabid dogs of panic off of me, told myself to keep my mind clear of such drowning emotion (I learned that from primary Intuitives and from NTs) so I could form a plan. My NFJ objective was to rescue my sister. I put my Fe on a leash, put the lead in the hand of my waiting Second-in-Command, Ni, and brought Se and Ti on board so we could put our heads together. Once Fe stopped being outraged and frightened by my sister's illness, it gave me the kick in the pants to confront the medical establishment and get Jenny in position to get help.

    And then once she was safe, I cried my eyes out.

    4) Anything else you feel like sharing. I'm just a T, so I'm not even sure how to word all this in F language.
    Being an F, an Intuitive F, and even worse, an Fe dominant is like having electrodes attached to your nards. I can't decide what I feel or don't feel. I'm strait-jacketed into this thing. My INFJ father frequently looks at me with pity because he has the shield of Ni somewhat barring the way to his Fe. Mine is on the surface, like a giant target. He watches me wrestle the beast down over and over and over. My INTP ex-bf Irish sat next to me on the couch the other night, told me to look after myself while Jenny's in the hospital, and to not internalize my emotions and make myself sick.

    "Not that you've ever internalized a single emotion you've ever had," he teased, smirking.

    I rotely threatened to choke him and throw him in a canal, then smiled gratefully.

    Long story short, I frequently get manhandled by my F, even if I have it under control. Suffering goes into me. Intense happiness goes into me. I envy my ENFP sister because she can somewhat chose what she acts on. I have to ride each jolt and try to kick it back out if I can.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    In waves of color, surges in my body, flashes in my brain taken up with energy by the whole of my nervous system.
    Pink is definately dom F.

    It is interesting to read some of the INFJ or ENFP responses and see the cross of N with the decription of their feelings, contrasted with my own experience of emotions and feelings as dom Fi. I have a smile on my face now reading Pink's description. Dom Fi is like this, but carried within. Everything in life has a color, a nuance, a tone that it strikes within me and carries its own energy or vibration deep into me.

    If I say I use Feeling to make a decision, I am meaning that I am comparing some issue against my long thought out feelings and values on issues, not these raw and unanaylazed emotions that come to me about everything. I am still not certain that part is understood by most thinkers when they speak of Feeling as a function.

    Feeler may well be flooded with emotion, but that doesn't mean that all that emotion affects their decisions at any given moment, any more than every fleeting thought crossing the mind of a thinker affects their decisions. The most distracting thing for me personally is when critical Te starts nagging me, undermining me and I become unsure of its validitiy. That can and does freeze me into a loop!

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