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The Dark Side of the INTJ

Curator

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Enlightening post Copper ^_^ thanks:)
 

AgentF

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I've decided this INTJ is a "Supercharged Cadbury Egg."
 

Curator

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im unsure if thats good or bad? I think thats supposed to be good? lol. if so, I hope thats the case,lol.
 

InvisibleJim

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I've decided this INTJ is a "Supercharged Cadbury Egg."

*holds onto his tin foil*

Cadbury_eggs.jpg
 

Kalach

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Stopped reading a while back to stew on this walls nonsense, et voila, it's time to generalise.

As we all know, INTJs have walls to protect their gooey inner core. And these walls are easy to see through. (*cough* spits on the ground, doesn't say "retards" just yet.)

You are of course all aware of what this means for other types, right? Let's say, ENFPs. The general point about INTJ walls is the real person is located in the tertiary area. So... ENFPs.... you guys have intensity and authenticity. That's to say, an overemphasis on the importance of highly personalised reaction. You use it to protect and justify your real identity, that of squealing truth demander.

INTJs see through your sensitivity. We recognise your attempts order the world. The charm lies in just how gauche the rules of politeness and attempts at adequacy become.



Because I mean, realy, who ever does anything good with their auxiliary function, right? Frankly, who ever does anything with their dominant function. If we truly laid out what INTJs and ENFPs see in one another, what would it look like?

INTJ: Ni (Wut?) over Te (LOL, walls!) over Fi (D'aww) over Se (that's disgusting).
vs
ENFP: Ne (God, really?) over Fi (Yes, lets be all inner world and insular) over Te (and smack people if they don't) over Si (wut, it has to be this way, again?)



The entire purpose of Jungian typology is to understand that other people are different. They aren't just like you but not as good.
 

AgentF

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Ok. So I've been day drinking. Watching the TED talks. Yes, that's how we roll. I admit I am somewhat debilitated. Having said that:

Say what??
 

Kalach

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"Gooey inner core" is what "you" (ENFPs in general) see. It's what you want to see. You recognise that behind overt behavior there is mixed personal motivation. The problematic next step is the suggestion that this personal motivation is the more meaningful part of the overt action. The overt action, the intended influence on the world of things and people, is, according to the emphasis placed on goo, less important. But the overt action was the result of conscious decision-making.

So here's the question. Is the ENFP interest in personal motivation the result of personal motivation being genuinely more meaningful than action in the world or a result of ENFPs being that much less capable of completing a thought about what is true and false in the world of things and processes?

So, now, these walls... seriously, walls? What's wrong with you extroverts? Are you that out of touch with your own inner processes that you don't recognise that inner processes are inner? You're genuinely obliged to evaluate them as "defended, so LOL"?
 

Kalach

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However, we are here to discuss the dark side, so...

pffft, I don't know, being utilitarian with people? Maintaining distance, not allowing discussion and development of their personal motives and yet expecting to be allowed still to direct and receive benefit? If you see it, walk away from it. If you don't see it, if you find its influence after the fact, or if you're bound to that INTJ through employment or circumstance, I dunno, say it out loud to the person and stand back.

The proper dark side of the INTJ lies in the ability to store visions away for future consequence. A personal vision seen through a lens of mixed personal motivation but nonetheless kept as meaningful and used to determine future actions and reactions to actions. So you, the non-INTJ, do one thing wrong, and the INTJ sees something in it for himself, and he keeps that vision with him for you later and for other people in other circumstances. It's rarely articulated, indeed if it is articulated it is often defused, but meanwhile it stays and informs. And since INTJs aren't actually that blind, this vision will be subtle in its application and development. But it still will inform.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Of course, introverted functions are "inner" and not obvious on the outside. In some types (and individuals), however, even introverted ones, they are more obvious than others. Also, some types (and individuals) are more willing to share more of this inner world with others. Yes, for introverts, this is more of a deliberate and conscious act rather than the ongoing external display of an extravert (who also can make the effort to turn it off if desired).

I wouldn't say INTJ "walls" are easy to see through, for anyone. It is easy to see/feel their presence, especially in those reluctant to share any of their inner world, but what lies behind generally remains a mystery, precisely because it is "inner". I suspect the ENFP just has some stronger inkling that this inner world is interesting or otherwise worthwhile; in short, the ENFP cares about it, when other types might assume it is boring, or not give it a second thought. ENFPs recognize and (attempt to) connect with the INTJs tertiary, because that is a strength for them, not because it is inherently of more value. It may be of more value in establishing a connection, at least if the INTJ can access/display it sufficiently.

One aspect of my interactions with ENFPs that I quite enjoy is how we often come to the same conclusions using much different reasoning/thinking: mainly Ne-Fi vs. mainly Ni-Te. Or, we can start off in the same N-space and end up in opposite directions by following Fi or Te respectively. We let each other see things much differently from our usual perspective.
 

Engineer

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However, we are here to discuss the dark side, so...

pffft, I don't know, being utilitarian with people? Maintaining distance, not allowing discussion and development of their personal motives and yet expecting to be allowed still to direct and receive benefit? If you see it, walk away from it. If you don't see it, if you find its influence after the fact, or if you're bound to that INTJ through employment or circumstance, I dunno, say it out loud to the person and stand back.

The proper dark side of the INTJ lies in the ability to store visions away for future consequence. A personal vision seen through a lens of mixed personal motivation but nonetheless kept as meaningful and used to determine future actions and reactions to actions. So you, the non-INTJ, do one thing wrong, and the INTJ sees something in it for himself, and he keeps that vision with him for you later and for other people in other circumstances. It's rarely articulated, indeed if it is articulated it is often defused, but meanwhile it stays and informs. And since INTJs aren't actually that blind, this vision will be subtle in its application and development. But it still will inform.

That's it, in a nutshell. It's like semi-paranoid foresight.
 

Kalach

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thank you both. helps enormously.

It does? *looks shifty*

Try this paranoia on for size: I'm sceptical of people who say they understand me (or, generically, INTJs). Perhaps they do understand. In fact, probably they do. But that's not what I mean when I say "understand". I use the word "understand" because understanding is what I seek. But I take it for granted (or for preferred outcome) that if someone says they understand me, it means, to put it bluntly, they're going to do what I say suggest or they're going to back off. That's what they'd do if they "understood."

Being solved like a puzzle is hardly an interesting or even remotely pleasing event. But if someone works out what I'm doing and makes some choice about joining in with it as I've prepared it (or has the sense to back off and get out of the way), that's hot.


^ aspirational Se.
 

AgentF

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It does? *looks shifty*

yes. it does. i'm interested in identifying patterns as well as unraveling puzzles. and what i'm finding here is a pretty consistent pattern.

Being solved like a puzzle is hardly an interesting or even remotely pleasing event. But if someone works out what I'm doing and makes some choice about joining in with it as I've prepared it (or has the sense to back off and get out of the way), that's hot.

maybe uninteresting to you. definitely pleasing for others. once you figure out the rules of the game, yeah: join in or bow out. but that's where the fun begins because the playing field just got much much more level.
 

Kalach

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maybe uninteresting to you. definitely pleasing for others.

Don't rule out the aspirational Se. Along with the very obvious Te it actually does mean that understanding leads to action. Or is meant to. An INTJ being fully himself will actually eventually expect to *do something*. More importantly, do something of his own design.

once you figure out the rules of the game, yeah: join in or bow out. but that's where the fun begins because the playing field just got much much more level.

Actually, I'd go with a no, there. One can fairly easily figure out some puzzle. It's a whole 'nother story as to whether one would actually not be grossed out at even thinking of supporting the completion of that puzzle. Or worse, merely bored.


^ the ENFP-INTJ fail point.
 

AgentF

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Don't rule out the aspirational Se. Along with the very obvious Te it actually does mean that understanding leads to action. Or is meant to. An INTJ being fully himself will actually eventually expect to *do something*. More importantly, do something of his own design.

right on time. :) care to elaborate?

Actually, I'd go with a no, there. One can fairly easily figure out some puzzle. It's a whole 'nother story as to whether one would actually not be grossed out at even thinking of supporting the completion of that puzzle. Or worse, merely bored.

^ the ENFP-INTJ fail point.

but that's precisely the point. maybe some of us have an appetite for offal.
 

AgentF

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Don't rule out the aspirational Se. Along with the very obvious Te it actually does mean that understanding leads to action. Or is meant to. An INTJ being fully himself will actually eventually expect to *do something*. More importantly, do something of his own design.

p.s. that. is hot.
 

Thalassa

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I don't know, but apparently some of them want to implant microchips under our skin like pets.

Beware.
 

Thalassa

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Stopped reading a while back to stew on this walls nonsense, et voila, it's time to generalise.

As we all know, INTJs have walls to protect their gooey inner core. And these walls are easy to see through. (*cough* spits on the ground, doesn't say "retards" just yet.)

You are of course all aware of what this means for other types, right? Let's say, ENFPs. The general point about INTJ walls is the real person is located in the tertiary area. So... ENFPs.... you guys have intensity and authenticity. That's to say, an overemphasis on the importance of highly personalised reaction. You use it to protect and justify your real identity, that of squealing truth demander.

INTJs see through your sensitivity. We recognise your attempts order the world. The charm lies in just how gauche the rules of politeness and attempts at adequacy become.



Because I mean, realy, who ever does anything good with their auxiliary function, right? Frankly, who ever does anything with their dominant function. If we truly laid out what INTJs and ENFPs see in one another, what would it look like?

INTJ: Ni (Wut?) over Te (LOL, walls!) over Fi (D'aww) over Se (that's disgusting).
vs
ENFP: Ne (God, really?) over Fi (Yes, lets be all inner world and insular) over Te (and smack people if they don't) over Si (wut, it has to be this way, again?)




The entire purpose of Jungian typology is to understand that other people are different. They aren't just like you but not as good.

Your descriptions are so epic and spot on.

What concerns me about "the gooey center" is trying to crack the shell and failing, or believing something fluffy inside...just isn't. Like the shell breaks, and LOL NOTHING IS INSIDE. It's like some fucked up art house film.

That can be dangerous - or let me stop being dramatic - simply time-wasting and emotionally painful wishful thinking.
 

Athenian200

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I can try to show how it would work with INTJ and INFJ...

INTJ: Ni (Yay! You get it!), Te (That wasn't very nice! Bully! ... It sure was effective, though.), Fi (Wow, you're so sensitive. LOL, you're joking, right? Umm, go back to Te mode. Please? I can't help you when you're like this), Se (I get like that sometimes. I don't know why, and I don't really like that about myself, but I do.)

INFJ: Ni (You get it. I knew there was more to you.), Fe (Why do you go along with this fake stuff? Can't you ever just be direct? ... Well, okay, I guess it DOES work better, sometimes. It seems so dirty, though.), Ti (Ironic that they call ME a heartless bastard. I may be a lot of things, but at least I'm not an intellectual coward, and I own my feelings.), Se (Yes, it's the bane of our existence, yet also the key to our growth.)

Note that the reactions tilted towards the negative end... the reactions aren't always so negative, but I think that's the gist of how we end up feeling about one anothers processing. The outcome might be different with an INTJ who doesn't see Fe/Ti as lacking integrity.
 
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